Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 21

Thread: thoughts on Helena Chang...

  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    37

    thoughts on Helena Chang...

    :edit: Hi I'm new here, just finished DF today at 2:10 AM. Was bummered to see no bonus content unlocked! ((((( Sorry if this has been brought up already, but I decided to give it a shot.

    What do you think of her? Is she a scumbag, or was what she did really necessary?

    In the end, she lied to Faith about April Ryan. Zoe didn't save April; instead, she watched her die by a hand other than Kian's. Helena has somehow also bugged Zoe the whole time, knowing everything that happened, despite Zoe changing clothes throughout the entire game...plothole there?

    ZoŽ (sitting down next to the girl): You've been helping me, haven't you, Faith?
    Faith: The white lady told me to.

    -

    ZoŽ: When did you last see her?
    Faith: She was here just before you.
    ZoŽ: She was?
    Faith: Yes.
    ZoŽ: What did she say?
    Faith: She said it's all fine. She said you did good. She said you saved April.
    ZoŽ: That's what she said? That I saved April?
    Faith (nodding): Yes.
    Faith was the puppet. Helena knew Zoe knew too much, so after Zoe got Faith to die, Helena disposed of Zoe too - no more Static and no more "special" individual that might somehow get in the way of her future plans. Even with Peats killed by the Twins, Gilmore took over the project. Thus, with both Zoe and April presumably out of commission, there is no one to take the wheel and stop the bad guys. The final scenes certainly show that.

    So I get a bad vibe from Helena. What do you think? I wonder how things would've turned out if Zoe hadn't saved her in the beginning.
    Last edited by amazingsalesman; 10-21-2009 at 11:28 PM.

  2. #2
    Helpless dragon Skizzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    2,383
    Quote Originally Posted by amazingsalesman View Post
    :edit: Hi I'm new here, just finished DF today at 2:10 AM. Was bummered to see no bonus content unlocked! ((((( Sorry if this has been brought up already, but I decided to give it a shot.

    What do you think of her? Is she a scumbag, or was what she did really necessary?

    In the end, she lied to Faith about April Ryan. Zoe didn't save April; instead, she watched her die by a hand other than Kian's. Helena has somehow also bugged Zoe the whole time, knowing everything that happened, despite Zoe changing clothes throughout the entire game...plothole there?

    Quote:
    ZoŽ (sitting down next to the girl): You've been helping me, haven't you, Faith?
    Faith: The white lady told me to.

    -

    ZoŽ: When did you last see her?
    Faith: She was here just before you.
    ZoŽ: She was?
    Faith: Yes.
    ZoŽ: What did she say?
    Faith: She said it's all fine. She said you did good. She said you saved April.
    ZoŽ: That's what she said? That I saved April?
    Faith (nodding): Yes.

    Faith was the puppet. Helena knew Zoe knew too much, so after Zoe got Faith to die, Helena disposed of Zoe too - no more Static and no more "special" individual that might somehow get in the way of her future plans. Even with Peats killed by the Twins, Gilmore took over the project. Thus, with both Zoe and April presumably out of commission, there is no one to take the wheel and stop the bad guys. The final scenes certainly show that.

    So I get a bad vibe from Helena. What do you think? I wonder how things would've turned out if Zoe hadn't saved her in the beginning.
    Hi and welcome to the forums. You are making a major assumption here that I do not share with you: you say that Helena Chang is the white lady that Faith is talking about. Although there has been much discussion as to who the white lady really is, I do not think it is Chang.

    First of all, Chang 'sends' ZoŽ to the Winter where Faith is. Why wouldn't she dispose of Faith herself if she was the white lady? Apparently she could talk to Faith, so why not talk her into letting go?

    Also, why would Chang be described as a white lady ('all white')? Apart from her outfit in the game, she isn't white at all. And when ZoŽ shows up in the Winter, she is dressed in white as well (especially since everything in there is in black and white). Therefore I believe that the white lady must have white hair (or at least not very dark). I'm still putting my money on the White Kin.



    I agree with you that Chang is bad news, but I don't think she is on the same side as Peats and Gilmore. It looks like she has an agenda of her own. It of course depends on who those people that locked Chang into that chamber in the beginning of the game were working for.
    'Demons run when a good man goes to war.' - River Song (Doctor Who)

  3. #3
    Professor b01 b01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,168
    I'm making no assumptions about Helena Chang. To me she isn't bad or good, she just is. We know too little about her to think anything about her reasons of what she did. I'll wait the third game to form an opinion about her. Knowing Ragnar, he'll make her role very complicated in the next game as she is probably only person still alive that we know something about :/

  4. #4
    Helpless dragon Skizzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    2,383
    Quote Originally Posted by b01 View Post
    I'm making no assumptions about Helena Chang. To me she isn't bad or good, she just is. We know too little about her to think anything about her reasons of what she did. I'll wait the third game to form an opinion about her. Knowing Ragnar, he'll make her role very complicated in the next game as she is probably only person still alive that we know something about :/
    Anybody who thinks that the ends justify the means and acts accordingly (like Helena Chang), is a bad person in my book.
    'Demons run when a good man goes to war.' - River Song (Doctor Who)

  5. #5
    Professor b01 b01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,168
    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzo View Post
    Anybody who thinks that the ends justify the means and acts accordingly (like Helena Chang), is a bad person in my book.
    "End justify the means" is bs. Principles are also bs. To me it is all of making the intelligent thing to do. You need to be able to calculate both sides and do what you think is right

  6. #6
    Helpless dragon Skizzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    2,383
    Quote Originally Posted by b01 View Post
    "End justify the means" is bs. Principles are also bs. To me it is all of making the intelligent thing to do. You need to be able to calculate both sides and do what you think is right
    True. Helena Chang basically kills ZoŽ/makes sure ZoŽ doesn't wake up to justify her means (whatever they are). Hence she is a bad person.
    'Demons run when a good man goes to war.' - River Song (Doctor Who)

  7. #7
    Professor b01 b01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,168
    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzo View Post
    True. Helena Chang basically kills ZoŽ/makes sure ZoŽ doesn't wake up to justify her means (whatever they are). Hence she is a bad person.
    But you don't know her reasons. I'm not saying she is a bad person and I'm not saying she is a good person. I'm just saying we do not have the whole picture. Actually we even do not have anything so we can't know

  8. #8
    Helpless dragon Skizzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    2,383
    Quote Originally Posted by b01 View Post
    But you don't know her reasons. I'm not saying she is a bad person and I'm not saying she is a good person. I'm just saying we do not have the whole picture. Actually we even do not have anything so we can't know
    Indeed, we do not know her reasons. But we don't need to: by the way she acts we already know that for her the ends justify the means (regardless of what her means are).

    Although a bit crude, you can compare it to this:
    A: Would you kill a good person?
    B: Well, that depends. If it saves the lives of thousands....

    Like I said, it's a very basic example, but in my opinion the answer to A's question should always be 'no.'
    'Demons run when a good man goes to war.' - River Song (Doctor Who)

  9. #9
    Professor b01 b01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,168
    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzo View Post
    Although a bit crude, you can compare it to this:
    A: Would you kill a good person?
    B: Well, that depends. If it saves the lives of thousands....
    I would kill to save more. You can call me heartless, but I'm not. I just do the logical thing. If it makes more good than bad, I'll do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzo View Post
    Like I said, it's a very basic example, but in my opinion the answer to A's question should always be 'no.'
    I can make a similar question - would you kill one person to save the universe? By your logic the answer would be no. I would gladly do it for the bigger good.
    Last edited by b01; 10-22-2009 at 11:22 AM.

  10. #10
    Helpless dragon Skizzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    2,383
    Quote Originally Posted by b01 View Post
    I can make a similar question - would you kill one person to save the universe? By your logic the answer would be no. I would gladly do it for the bigger good.
    That's why I said that my example was very basic. Fortunately in life (but for this discussion more importantly: in the game) choices and situations are never that basic. One of my points also is (although I admit that my example certainly did not make that clear) that you are rarely absolutely certain of the outcome of your actions. In Helena Chang's case this comes down to gambling with ZoŽ's (and possibly Faith's) life(s) to try and get the outcome she desires.
    'Demons run when a good man goes to war.' - River Song (Doctor Who)

  11. #11
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    174
    Quote Originally Posted by amazingsalesman View Post
    :edit: Hi I'm new here, just finished DF today at 2:10 AM. Was bummered to see no bonus content unlocked! ((((( Sorry if this has been brought up already, but I decided to give it a shot.

    What do you think of her? Is she a scumbag, or was what she did really necessary?

    In the end, she lied to Faith about April Ryan. Zoe didn't save April; instead, she watched her die by a hand other than Kian's. Helena has somehow also bugged Zoe the whole time, knowing everything that happened, despite Zoe changing clothes throughout the entire game...plothole there?



    Faith was the puppet. Helena knew Zoe knew too much, so after Zoe got Faith to die, Helena disposed of Zoe too - no more Static and no more "special" individual that might somehow get in the way of her future plans. Even with Peats killed by the Twins, Gilmore took over the project. Thus, with both Zoe and April presumably out of commission, there is no one to take the wheel and stop the bad guys. The final scenes certainly show that.

    So I get a bad vibe from Helena. What do you think? I wonder how things would've turned out if Zoe hadn't saved her in the beginning.
    I'm afraid that story is much complicated - there is nothing "white" and nothing "black".

  12. #12
    Professor b01 b01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,168
    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzo View Post
    In Helena Chang's case this comes down to gambling with ZoŽ's (and possibly Faith's) life(s) to try and get the outcome she desires.
    You do not know her motives so you can't know if she's bad. Personally I'm not thinking she is good. I'm simply pointing out that we can't know yet - and to most humans not having an opinion is a big problem or they think it is impossible I must say...

  13. #13
    Helpless dragon Skizzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    2,383
    Quote Originally Posted by b01 View Post
    You do not know her motives so you can't know if she's bad. Personally I'm not thinking she is good. I'm simply pointing out that we can't know yet - and to most humans not having an opinion is a big problem or they think it is impossible I must say...
    You're right: we don't know her motives. But my point is that we don't need to know them to be able to tell that what she does to ZoŽ is despicable.
    'Demons run when a good man goes to war.' - River Song (Doctor Who)

  14. #14
    Professor b01 b01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,168
    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzo View Post
    You're right: we don't know her motives. But my point is that we don't need to know them to be able to tell that what she does to ZoŽ is despicable.
    True, it isn't very nice, especially when Helena could be her mother...

  15. #15
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    37
    Quote Originally Posted by b01 View Post
    True, it isn't very nice, especially when Helena could be her mother...
    That's what angered me so much. Zoe being put into a coma by the very person she saved just seems wrong. And Helena could have at least came out and said "Zoe, i am your long-lost mother" while Zoe was still awake, since she owed Zoe at least that much for rescuing her. But Ragnar left us with a giant cliffhanger instead as he giggled and thought of the thousands of players who would be banging their heads on their desks in despair - obviously a ploy to make people want to definitely purchase DFC upon release to find out what the hell is going on with Helena, and about Zoe's fate. I know how his evil mind works
    Last edited by amazingsalesman; 10-23-2009 at 04:10 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •