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Thread: Brian Westhouse, bad guy?

  1. #16
    Dreamfall Analyst remired's Avatar
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    I'm part of the category of those who think Brian is too suspicious to be the bad guy. Well... Maybe I'm the only one left in the category .

    You're constantly pushed to be suspicious about him, but the one thing that is really overdone is the first time you speak to him as April. You actually have an option for responding in a cautious, suspecting way. I really thought at the time: "Why? Westhouse might have been a drunk at the time, but he helped April." And Why don't you have these options when Zo speaks to so many people you don't need to trust (like Damien, I had the feeling he was pulling my leg there).

    My main reason for believing in his innocence is that he is in league with Cortez.

    And finally, for those who already condemn Westhouse: maybe he got some secret information out of Crow when he got him drunk in TLJ...

  2. #17
    Dreamer ravenwoods's Avatar
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    Sorry but there is nothing bad about the 'undreaming'. So even if Westhouse is it, he is just doing what needs to be done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nickless_One View Post
    I ate red and green apple this morning... OH MY GOD the dragons' spirits are fighting in my stomach!!1!l! ... I mean like people... restrain that wild imagination of yours a little bit ok?

  3. #18
    Dreamfall Analyst remired's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ravenwoods View Post
    Sorry but there is nothing bad about the 'undreaming'. So even if Westhouse is it, he is just doing what needs to be done.
    I know, I think it just wants to play .

    On the other hand, the Vagabond is clearly not amused with it being unchained.

  4. #19
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    The prologue of Dreamfall features Brian as a playable character. This isn't done by accident - it's clear that he's being set up to play a much more significant role in DF than he is in TLJ, where he is a colorful but still relatively minor character. Because of this, I seriously doubt that Brian is simply being set up as a red herring. While it might be an amusing method of breaking the storytelling process, at the same time it is indeed doing damage to the basic "credibility" of the telling of a story - I think Ragnar would be "trying too hard" to "fool" us. Comedy writers like Terry Pratchett, who are all about going into deep post-post-modern methods of lampooning the storytelling process for laughs, can get away with such things as their stories are inherently not-serious.

    I don't think quite the same thing exists with Brian. However, that doesn't mean Brian is necessarily evil or that Brian is even aware of what he's doing. Myself, I highly suspect the Undreaming is riding Brian like a parasite on an unaware host - that is, it hears what Brian hears, it sees what Brian sees, and perhaps furnishes a powerful unconscious drive to do certain things in Brian going so far as to perhaps "possess" Brian in his sleep to do things, things which Brian wouldn't remember when he wakes up. (Yet at the same time, I also suspect the Undreaming isn't necessarily evil either - no more than a wolf is evil when it drags down a fawn to eat - both are simply fulfilling their instinctual needs.)

    Though - beyond silly theories like Crow did something to the White Dragon, there's at least one other good candidate for attacking the White Dragon.

  5. #20
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    you mean like Brian is smth like goauld? DDD Its for sure, that they (creators of Dreamfall) achieved this! -> They left many questions and we can speculate and talk and talk and talk about it and we be never sure DDDD I wonder if they do it purposely

    Its good because you dont know, you are curious and suspicious and that give to the story smth special. You dont forget because you dont know everything. On the other hand, if this is the end (i hope not) and there will be no sequal or smth, its a bad thing. Because you never will know the answer...... oh i hope they will explain it somehow someday (soon) or it will kill me - not knowing DDDDDD

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by wandrew8 View Post
    There's also the theory that Brian became an alcoholic to 'stop the voices' of the Undreaming's possession. When his supply dried up after he had to flee Marcuria, the Undreaming reasserted itself and started hunting the Kin across Arcadia. Thus his extensive travel.
    And I think that pretty much shows up why April would be suspicious of him. He's enthusiastic about Benrime's mulled wine, when in TLJ he didn't have great things to say about Marcurian wine.

    Though, of course, wine in general is an acquired taste and he may have learned to like it in the absence of any alternative.

  7. #22
    Dreamfall Analyst remired's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sianna Tors View Post
    The prologue of Dreamfall features Brian as a playable character. This isn't done by accident - it's clear that he's being set up to play a much more significant role in DF than he is in TLJ, where he is a colorful but still relatively minor character.
    Mr Tornquist never made it a secret that Brian plays a significant role in the story, and even said in an interview that he would like to make a prequel telling the adventures of Westhouse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sianna Tors View Post
    I think Ragnar would be "trying too hard" to "fool" us. [...] I don't think quite the same thing exists with Brian. However, that doesn't mean Brian is necessarily evil or that Brian is even aware of what he's doing.
    Exactly. Brian is an important character, but I don't think he attacked the White as many people here believe. He is made suspicious by the game in a rather forced and unnatural way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sianna Tors View Post
    Myself, I highly suspect the Undreaming is riding Brian like a parasite on an unaware host
    If that would be the case, I think the Undreaming is a positive force rather than a negative entity.

    The problem is, however, that Westhouse didn't do anything until the DF events. He became a drunkard, and was forced out of his house when the Tyren invaded Marcuria. I know some people said the alcohol might have silenced the Undreaming, but this is a bit lame and it contains a paradox: it would mean that Westhouse is still strong enough to fight the Undreaming by drinking. It just doesn't make sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sianna Tors View Post
    Though - beyond silly theories like Crow did something to the White Dragon, there's at least one other good candidate for attacking the White Dragon.
    Yes: the Dark person who did not remember April.

  8. #23
    Script Pixie wandrew8's Avatar
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    I just thought I'd throw my two cents in again, and admit that when I first played it through I didn't see anything particularly sinister about Brian.

    Quote Originally Posted by remired View Post
    I know some people said the alcohol might have silenced the Undreaming, but this is a bit lame and it contains a paradox: it would mean that Westhouse is still strong enough to fight the Undreaming by drinking. It just doesn't make sense.
    While I don't necessarily subscribe to this theory, there are plenty of ways around that. The Undreaming may have been unprepared for his initial suppression of it, but when he was dry next it took hold well and truly. Plus, he no longer had pure single malt to blast it with.

  9. #24
    Dreamfall Analyst remired's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wandrew8 View Post
    While I don't necessarily subscribe to this theory, there are plenty of ways around that.
    While I've never seen you fully committed to the theory, you are the only one I've read defending it .

    Quote Originally Posted by wandrew8 View Post
    The Undreaming may have been unprepared for his initial suppression of it, but when he was dry next it took hold well and truly. Plus, he no longer had pure single malt to blast it with.
    This requires quite a sentient Undreaming. The whole possessed thing does, really. I always figured the Undreaming more like a force, not like a sentient thing with a purpose. It couldn't help finding Westhouse: he was open and eager. Anyway, what kind of lame Undreaming would you have if it could not fight alcohol? For the same money, Westhouse could have died before stopping the liquor.

  10. #25
    Dreamer ravenwoods's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sianna Tors View Post
    The prologue of Dreamfall features Brian as a playable character. This isn't done by accident - it's clear that he's being set up to play a much more significant role in DF than he is in TLJ, where he is a colorful but still relatively minor character. Because of this, I seriously doubt that Brian is simply being set up as a red herring. While it might be an amusing method of breaking the storytelling process, at the same time it is indeed doing damage to the basic "credibility" of the telling of a story - I think Ragnar would be "trying too hard" to "fool" us. Comedy writers like Terry Pratchett, who are all about going into deep post-post-modern methods of lampooning the storytelling process for laughs, can get away with such things as their stories are inherently not-serious.

    I don't think quite the same thing exists with Brian. However, that doesn't mean Brian is necessarily evil or that Brian is even aware of what he's doing. Myself, I highly suspect the Undreaming is riding Brian like a parasite on an unaware host - that is, it hears what Brian hears, it sees what Brian sees, and perhaps furnishes a powerful unconscious drive to do certain things in Brian going so far as to perhaps "possess" Brian in his sleep to do things, things which Brian wouldn't remember when he wakes up. (Yet at the same time, I also suspect the Undreaming isn't necessarily evil either - no more than a wolf is evil when it drags down a fawn to eat - both are simply fulfilling their instinctual needs.)

    Though - beyond silly theories like Crow did something to the White Dragon, there's at least one other good candidate for attacking the White Dragon.
    I agree wholeheartedly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nickless_One View Post
    I ate red and green apple this morning... OH MY GOD the dragons' spirits are fighting in my stomach!!1!l! ... I mean like people... restrain that wild imagination of yours a little bit ok?

  11. #26
    Warrior Dreamer MissionVao's Avatar
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    Well I've got to disagree with Brian killing the White of the Kin, I think it was the captain of the shadow ship, I don't know why but my sixth sense is telling me something funky was going on with him.

    As for Brian Westhouse, I do think he knows more than he's letting on!
    Last edited by MissionVao; 09-08-2008 at 07:11 PM.
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  12. #27
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    there was so many weird things...

    - the captain who not recognized the April as "Wave" (the another of them tell her that its strange, because he should know, because they all know!!!)
    - weird was that guy protending to be Reza
    - weird was how first react the White dragon on Brian
    - weird was the prophet (dont remember now if April found out who it was....think not)
    - weird is the undreaming (who or what it is, what it did with Brian)
    - weird is that guy (wizard or what...) in that place between the worlds
    - weird was the doctor (mother of Zoe), more wird was that mother killed own child
    - weird was Kian dont want to kill April (clearly he feeld smth about her) but he dont stop the stupid soldier to kill her
    -weird was the innkeeper, she said to April she dint see anyone (the prophet), but she must, because he walk right around her (because the door to the cellar was in aisle behind the bar. So she lied or he was invisible ??? And i think in the animation with the white dragon, she tell smth like "i cant see oyu"....so another invisible sb? DD

    oh i dont know dont know nothing DD we need Hercule Pierot to solve this mystery DDDDDDDDDDD

    EDIT: sorry for my keyboard DDD
    Last edited by tomparis; 09-09-2008 at 05:06 AM.

  13. #28
    Dreamfall Analyst remired's Avatar
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    O please edit all the w**rds into "weird". My eyes can't stand it.

  14. #29
    Dreamworld Member Kiwi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wandrew8 View Post
    I just thought I'd throw my two cents in again, and admit that when I first played it through I didn't see anything particularly sinister about Brian.
    I didn't first time around, but replaying it recently it felt like they may as well have had a big arrow pointing to him with the words "Look! This guy is bad!" in giant flashing type when they show him after Zoe talks to the white kin. It looked to me like they were making it so obvious that he probably isn't.

  15. #30
    Remember KHH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wandrew8 View Post
    I just thought I'd throw my two cents in again, and admit that when I first played it through I didn't see anything particularly sinister about Brian.
    No, untill I saw it suggested at this forum it never even occured to me.
    Maybe we're naive?
    April Ryan is my friend,
    Every sorrow she can mend.
    When i visit her dark realm,
    Does it simply overwhelm.

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