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Thread: April Ryan is not dead. I have proof. *spoilers?*

  1. #46
    Warrior Dreamer MissionVao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dmm View Post
    Where did Lady Alvane say this? Do you mean as in the White Lady is Lady Alvane?
    There's two likely theories. The first one is that the White Lady is Lady Alvane or the second one is that she is the Daughter of the White of the Kin. Right now I'm betting on the first one, but I wouldn't totally rule our the second idea, or person that hasn't been considered.
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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissionVao View Post
    There's two likely theories. The first one is that the White Lady is Lady Alvane or the second one is that she is the Daughter of the White of the Kin. Right now I'm betting on the first one, but I wouldn't totally rule our the second idea, or person that hasn't been considered.
    This doesn't preclude that the White Lady is Lady Alvane is April.
    In TLJ, before Dreamfall was created, we are led to believe that April is Lady Alvane. Mostly, this base on Crow appearing at the end talking to Lady Alvane with the type of familiarity he had with April. Ragnor may have simply planted a Red Herring or after creating Dreamfall changed his mind about who Lady Alvane is. We still don't know April's origins, who or even what she is.

    As far as April being alive, we still don't know what that means. Naturally I want her to survive physically. Her becoming some super being doesn't interest me and I would feel diminish the story.

    An aside:
    I noticed that April's theme is only played three times throughout Dreamfall. The first time when April and Zoe first meet. The second time when April and Kian first meet. The third time when Zoe is talking to Faith about letting go, accepting death. April isn't present in this case or is she? I don't mean as the child, Faith, but perhaps present in some other way.

    We all know that we are never going to know the answers to anything until Ragnor can reveal them to us, which maybe a long way off. Still, it is interesting to read all the speculations based on the way each person perceives the story and their reasons for believing the way they do.

  3. #48
    Warrior Dreamer MissionVao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dmm View Post
    This doesn't preclude that the White Lady is Lady Alvane is April.
    In TLJ, before Dreamfall was created, we are led to believe that April is Lady Alvane. Mostly, this base on Crow appearing at the end talking to Lady Alvane with the type of familiarity he had with April. Ragnor may have simply planted a Red Herring or after creating Dreamfall changed his mind about who Lady Alvane is. We still don't know April's origins, who or even what she is.
    Who said, I think the White Lady or Lady Alvane is April?


    Quote Originally Posted by Dmm View Post
    As far as April being alive, we still don't know what that means. Naturally I want her to survive physically. Her becoming some super being doesn't interest me and I would feel diminish the story.
    Number of things point to that fact. But the biggest one is, “She's already been saved!”

    What ever that means?
    "You must save her, Zoe....."
    www.blackhope.net/dreamfall.htm
    “Our lives are like flames on the wind, waiting for our salvation to begin.”

  4. #49
    Helpless dragon Skizzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miral View Post
    I don't like that sort of argument, since it can equally be applied to all sorts of people -- there's no reason to single April out as "the one who could have saved the Balance if she wasn't dead".

    For the prophecy to be valid, then, I think that either April is still alive and will do something to destroy the Balance in the future, or she is dead and did something when she was alive that will destroy the Balance in the future.

    Besides, failure to save something is not the same thing as destroying it. The latter implies action, even if unwitting.
    I agree that causing something by inaction is not a very strong argument, and just like you I think that April is still alive. I just wanted to show that the 'proof' that was given here isn't rock-solid proof.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dmm View Post
    I think it is interesting that the prophecy said April must destroy the balance to bring about reunification of the two worlds.
    Well, this part in itself isn't that strange. If the creation of the Balance caused the separation of the Worlds (I know I'm cutting a few corners here, but you get the idea), then it isn't that strange to reason that the destruction of the Balance would be needed for reunification.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dmm View Post
    But the way he wrote originally hinted, strongly, in favor of April:

    April: Did you bring me here?

    Old Woman: You brought yourself here, but yes, I opened a doorway for you.


    The simplest explanation - April in trying to escape her pursuers brought herself to the vicinity of the mysterious door, where upon the Old Woman opened the doorway.
    But it could also mean - I guided my younger self to come to where the mystery door is located.
    Also, if it is in fact a Shift that Lady Alvane opened, we need to remember that people cannot open Shifts for one another. So if April went through the Shift Lady Alvane created succesfully, this could have been because in a way Lady Alvane opened a Shift for herself (since she is April).

    Quote Originally Posted by Dmm View Post
    April: Why?

    Old Woman: Because that's how the story goes, April. You escape. You outrun your pursuers, and your journey continues. It's been written, and we cannot change that now.
    You know, this part has always bothered me because it seems to go into the whole time-travel changing stuff. As if April's future was already set. Now from Lady Alvane's viewpoint that might make sense, since she has already lived it, but for April (and the player) this is a very strange thing to say.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dmm View Post
    Old Woman: Listen to me, April. You must go on, you must be brave. They all depend on...on you. And you can do it, you can get through this. Just remember what's important and what's not. Remember who your friends are, and trust them, let them help you.

    My impression was from the Old Woman hesitating at "on...on" that she was about to say "on me" and caught her self. Ragnor could have left the "on...on" out but chose to write it that way for a reason.
    I agree with you. It seems like she wanted to say 'me', but stopped herself just in time.


    Quote Originally Posted by MissionVao View Post
    As for going back on subject. We know that April is alive, because Lady Alvane as said that Zoë as already saved her.
    Back on the whole White Lady = Lady Alvane thing again, are we?
    'Demons run when a good man goes to war.' - River Song (Doctor Who)

  5. #50
    Random Lurker Miral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzo View Post
    Well, this part in itself isn't that strange. If the creation of the Balance caused the separation of the Worlds (I know I'm cutting a few corners here, but you get the idea), then it isn't that strange to reason that the destruction of the Balance would be needed for reunification.
    Yes. The Balance is the balance between science and magic, between the two worlds -- if the two worlds are going to reunify then the Balance can't exist any more, by definition. (And when it was failing on its own during TLJ, the worlds were starting to join back together in random ways, essentially indicating that the Balance is the only thing keeping them apart in the first place.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzo View Post
    Also, if it is in fact a Shift that Lady Alvane opened, we need to remember that people cannot open Shifts for one another. So if April went through the Shift Lady Alvane created succesfully, this could have been because in a way Lady Alvane opened a Shift for herself (since she is April).
    It depends. Brian travelled through a "half Shift" to the Storytime opened by someone else, and Crow has repeatedly travelled through similar "half Shifts" between Arcadia and the Guardian's Realm. Also the Guardian has the power to open a door into his realm which anyone is able to step through. All of this suggests that either Cortez was lying about other people using shifts (possibly through good intentions, to motivate April), or there's something different about a shift between Stark and Arcadia from all these other kinds of "doors".

  6. #51
    Warrior Dreamer MissionVao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzo View Post
    Back on the whole White Lady = Lady Alvane thing again, are we?
    Never.

    But, I am open to the idea that the White Lady and Lady Alvane might be different people.
    "You must save her, Zoe....."
    www.blackhope.net/dreamfall.htm
    “Our lives are like flames on the wind, waiting for our salvation to begin.”

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzo View Post
    Also, if it is in fact a Shift that Lady Alvane opened, we need to remember that people cannot open Shifts for one another. So if April went through the Shift Lady Alvane created succesfully, this could have been because in a way Lady Alvane opened a Shift for herself (since she is April).
    Here is the transcript concerning the "shift":

    Old Woman: This is my home, the House of All Worlds.

    April: This is Arcadia? It looked like I passed through a Shift but it didn't feel...it felt different, not like Shifting.

    Old Woman: It's similar to Shifting, except you did not pass through dreams,...


    I feel Lady Alvane could invite anyone she wanted into the House of All Worlds (the young couple she is telling the story to is an example) and also exclude anyone she wanted (the henchmen pursuing April), simply because it wasn't a Shift but only similar to a Shift. She is running the show as far as who gets to enter the House of All Worlds.

  8. #53
    Registered User richie_b_97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dmm View Post

    April: Maybe I'll see you again?

    Old Woman: Oh, I'm quite certain of that. Quite, quite certain.


    I doubt April met Lady Alvane in the 10 intervening years between TLJ and Dreamfall.
    I feel if she had met her, she would have had a far different attitude than we see in Dreamfall.
    This could imply two possibilities that she will meet Lady Alvane some time in the future or she has already met her in the form of Zoe.
    Or that she will become her. Ragnar's post saying "be cautious about identifying April with Lady Alvane" could simply mean that April has grown into such a different person by the time she is known as Lady Alvane that you shouldn't identify her as being the same person anymore.

  9. #54
    Helpless dragon Skizzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miral View Post
    It depends. Brian travelled through a "half Shift" to the Storytime opened by someone else, and Crow has repeatedly travelled through similar "half Shifts" between Arcadia and the Guardian's Realm. Also the Guardian has the power to open a door into his realm which anyone is able to step through. All of this suggests that either Cortez was lying about other people using shifts (possibly through good intentions, to motivate April), or there's something different about a shift between Stark and Arcadia from all these other kinds of "doors".
    When you sum up all the exceptions there sure are a lot of them. Of course Brian was stuck between worlds/in the Storytime for a long time, which could very well be because he didn't go through his own Shift, but I can think of no explanation for Crow. What does stand out of course is that in TLJ April is able to open Shifts for Crow and that in Dreamfall April needs Crow to open a Shift.

    One could also argue that the Guardian is sort of an exception to 'normal' Shifters, but as I said, we are getting quite a large list with exceptions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dmm View Post
    Here is the transcript concerning the "shift":

    Old Woman: This is my home, the House of All Worlds.

    April: This is Arcadia? It looked like I passed through a Shift but it didn't feel...it felt different, not like Shifting.

    Old Woman: It's similar to Shifting, except you did not pass through dreams,...
    Thanks for clearing it up. So it definitely wasn't a normal Shift then.


    Quote Originally Posted by richie_b_97 View Post
    Or that she will become her. Ragnar's post saying "be cautious about identifying April with Lady Alvane" could simply mean that April has grown into such a different person by the time she is known as Lady Alvane that you shouldn't identify her as being the same person anymore.
    That's the trouble with Ragnar: he loves being mysterious. Sometimes I suspect him doing so simply to throw us off the right track.
    'Demons run when a good man goes to war.' - River Song (Doctor Who)

  10. #55
    Random Lurker Miral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzo View Post
    When you sum up all the exceptions there sure are a lot of them. Of course Brian was stuck between worlds/in the Storytime for a long time, which could very well be because he didn't go through his own Shift, but I can think of no explanation for Crow.
    That's certainly what Brian thinks, but the opening sequence of DF makes me wonder about that as well. Perhaps Brian thought that he was supposed to go directly to Arcadia, but the conversation of the whispering monks suggests that he was quite intentionally sent to the Storytime.

    It's still a bit of a mystery why he spent so long there, and how he finally managed to get out (and, of course, what the Undreaming did).

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzo View Post
    That's the trouble with Ragnar: he loves being mysterious. Sometimes I suspect him doing so simply to throw us off the right track.
    I'd never suspect such a thing. I'm actually 100% certain
    A fully working kitchen holds a great many things, not least of which is a huge collection of ways of committing horrible murder, plus multiple ways of getting rid of the evidence.

  12. #57
    Helpless dragon Skizzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miral View Post
    That's certainly what Brian thinks, but the opening sequence of DF makes me wonder about that as well. Perhaps Brian thought that he was supposed to go directly to Arcadia, but the conversation of the whispering monks suggests that he was quite intentionally sent to the Storytime.

    It's still a bit of a mystery why he spent so long there, and how he finally managed to get out (and, of course, what the Undreaming did).
    Well, as you say: that doesn't explain why he would be stuck in there for so long. In Dreamfall he has managed to unleash the Undreaming within a minute of his arrival in the Storytime.
    'Demons run when a good man goes to war.' - River Song (Doctor Who)

  13. #58
    Portal to Chaos onion's Avatar
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    I dont understand the point of even arguing over this.

    At this point in time Lady Alvane is BOTH April and Zoe. Ragnar, along with every other story writer out there, makes sure to leave questions unanswerable so that they have flexibility to write the next sequel. Until the next sequel is released the old lady is BOTH April and Zoe at the same time. I bet Ragnar has not even decided yet so NOBODY knows or will know until the game is coded. There is no point in debating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onion View Post
    I dont understand the point of even arguing over this.

    At this point in time Lady Alvane is BOTH April and Zoe. Ragnar, along with every other story writer out there, makes sure to leave questions unanswerable so that they have flexibility to write the next sequel. Until the next sequel is released the old lady is BOTH April and Zoe at the same time. I bet Ragnar has not even decided yet so NOBODY knows or will know until the game is coded. There is no point in debating.
    NO KIDDING? This whole forum is loaded with speculation. The whole point of all the discussions is to see how other people view things, not who has the answer. We are all well aware that the answers won''t come until Ragnar is ready to reveal them. We also know he has the right to write his story any way he wants to. Personally, I hope none of the speculation put forth on any of the characters &, the probable story line is even close to what Ragnar is thinking.
    You have been here for a long time, so you have seen just about everything and every character analyzed a thousands times over in excruciating detail; I can see why it holds little interest for you. Some of us are relative new comers and though I use search to read older threads it is not possible to successfully find all there has been written on any given subject. Just point to a thread that has already covered that subject if you feel some one has started a thread that is redundant (which will probably be just about any new thread).

  15. #60
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    Of course, Lady Alvane could actually just be Lady Alvane, someone whose backstory we haven't seen yet.

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