Page 1 of 9 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 134

Thread: What is the Undreaming?

  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    32

    What is the Undreaming?

    What does it mean? Getting someone out of a dream?

  2. #2
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    122
    Quote Originally Posted by Squallly
    What does it mean? Getting someone out of a dream?
    I don`t know, but it looks like that evil black thing from the grudge (1 or 2? I dont remember, Its not exactly one of my favorites....)

    Anyway, I think it steals you mind or something. Maybe it was the undreaming thath helped peats to create his puppets
    "How can we be enemies when we have just meet?"
    - Kian Alvane

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    24
    My assumption is that... if the dreaming is where everything begins, the undreaming is where everything ends.

  4. #4
    Verbose Hyperbolist Lee in Limbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    412
    I'm tempted to write 'Who knows? Wait and find out' and leave it at that. But I suspect you're fishing for something more speculative. I'll take a stab.

    So far, Dreamtime (aka the Dreaming) has been referred to in Dreamfall as the birthplace of al things. This jibes with aboriginal folklore on the subject, though Ragnar may have some specific things to say about it that may or may not jibe with that perfectly.

    The Undreaming, one must assume, is some form of antithesis of this notion. Therefore, while nothing is born to the Undreaming, perhaps the Undreaming seeks to unravel all that the Dreamtime has created. One might compare it to the concept of entropy, excepting that entropy is the ultimate dissolution of all things in reality, whereas the Undreaming, so far, seems to merely be an agent of radical change to the concept of the Balance.

    Just spitballing, here. Feel free to ignore.
    Lee Edward McIlmoyle,
    Losing Faith in Fandoms

    "ohh...gravity - dodgy force, that - can't trust it..." ~Sozdanee

  5. #5
    Dreamworld Member Jestas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Stark
    Posts
    476
    all I know is that Eingana, the undreaming and the "dream swirl" are somewhat similar and connected, like a representation of the same thing in three different worlds... April touches the swirl, Zoe indirectly touches Eingana through that "worm" (and it's interesting that they both do this gesture during the same chapter) and Brian is tainted by the undreaming in the prologue.
    Balance provides.

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    73
    It must mean the opposite of dreaming. If you accept that dreaming is creation. Then undreaming must be the opposite destruction or uncreation.

    More questions
    Does the undreaming have a mind of it's own? Is it evil? Or does it just travel a random path and destroys anything that comes it's way? Why did Crotez/Brian/Monks knowingly unleash this destructive force? If it's in Brian now why isn't he more destructive then he has shown to be? Is Brian in control of it?

  7. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    71
    "If it's in Brian now why isn't he more destructive then he has shown to be? Is Brian in control of it?"

    I think I might have a somewhat plausible explanation for that.

    When we first see the Undreaming attacking Brian, the Guardian of The Storytime (assuming for a minute that's what he is) cannot just stay there and do nothing, can he? If you look good, I think what he is really doing is pointing his staff to them (Westhouse and the Undreaming "blob"), probably trying to SEAL away the Undreaming within Brian or at least doing something to minimize the harm the Undreaming can do.

    Another theory, as for the reason WHY the Undreaming needs Brian:

    I don't think Brian is "special" in anyway except that he is *prepared* , even eager to go to Arcadia. The monks did something to make his body&soul appear in the Storytime (not Dreaming like Zoë does). My guess is that the Undreaming *needs* a "host" from within the "Dream" in order to be able to leave the Storytime.

    So that thing is locked away inside of Brian but when he meets some of the Azadi magicians, something happens to unlock the Undreaming's power, or perhaps part of it.

    Hmmm... those are several theories actually...

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    73
    "The monks did something to make his body&soul appear in the Storytime (not Dreaming like ZoŽ does). "

    This is an important point. Brian is actually physically in Storytime, flesh and blood. April hasn't been to Storytime. Even the dreamer Zoe isn't really in storytime. Zoe's body is resting peacefully in Stark. Something about Brian makes him very special. It's possible no living thing ever has been to Storytime. The old man in storytime recognized it when he first laid eyes on Brian. Shock that a living person had made it to Storytime.

  9. #9
    ?edicated Quote Fairy
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    671
    Darkelve:
    Check out the thread below...
    ...an idea about why the Undreaming seized Brian...
    http://forums.longestjourney.com/sho...4929#post24929

  10. #10
    Helpless dragon Skizzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    2,383
    The title of this thread resembled what I want to post most, so I chose this one to post it in, although without doubt there are many other threads concerning the subject.

    Every once in a while, I go on a rambling spree in my mind about certain subjects/events in Dreamfall. The post below is one of them and is of course only speculation. But I thought: what the hell, I'll just post it anyway. So here it is:

    Brian is at least touched by the Undreaming. When we meet Reza at the end of the game, Zoe tells us that itís not him (Reza). Has he been touched by the Undreaming as well? Is it a copy of the real Reza? This could explain the change in behaviour between TLJ-Brian and Dreamfall-Brian. The first is the real deal, the second a copy, or the Undreaming was Ďactivated.í What happens to the original people after that, is unknown. If the Dreamfall-Brian is indeed not the real one and the TLJ one is, then we know that at the time of TLJ either the Undreaming has the inactivated copy still somewhere, or that the Undreaming inside Brian hasnít become active yet.

    However, it would seem that the originals disappear or at least become inactive. This would explain the disappearance of the Kin, which have been taken over by the Undreaming. This would also mean that Brian very likely is (the carrier of) the Undreaming. I always thought that his travelling across Arcadia might have something to do with the Kin disappearing, although since (apart from the White and the Blue) we donít know if the Kin are still alive and if so, if they are in Arcadia.

    This leaves the matter of whether the Undreaming can possess a person, or if it taints a person. The first could be true: the Undreaming-Reza only appears after the Undreaming-Brianís story is finished, but the title of the prologue (Tainted) suggests the latter to be true.

    Regardless of all of this, according to the Vagabond it was Brian who released/unchained the Undreaming. I think that the Vagabond knew that Brian was going to Arcadia. Maybe all non-Shifters have to go through the Story Time if they want to go to Arcadia/Stark. If the Undreaming Ďbelongedí in the Story Time (and given the name that isnít highly unlikely) Brian could have been its ticket out. That means that the Undreaming could not leave the Story Time on its own. What this means for travelling between Arcadia and Stark is another mystery. Either the Undreaming can travel anywhere, as long as it has a vessel (body) to travel in, the Undreaming can travel freely between Stark and Arcadia anyway, or the Undreaming cannot travel from Arcadia at all.

    Also, Peats tells Zoe that he ate Rezaís dreams (and that he is dead). At the end of the game we see Reza-who-isnít-Reza. If Reza has indeed been taken over by the Undreaming, does this mean that Peats and the Undreaming are connected? And that Peats (supposed) death at the end of the game is an important part of the unchaining of the Undreaming?
    'Demons run when a good man goes to war.' - River Song (Doctor Who)

  11. #11
    Helpless dragon Skizzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    2,383
    Quote Originally Posted by Quna View Post
    But as for Brian, one thing concerns me. He claims tht when the tyrens attacked Marcuria, he left the city and started travelling. But when April came to see him, in TLJ, he was definitly NOT going anywhere. He told her he had a weapon and enough bullet to kill a dozen of them, or something. He also stated he had built his house with his own two hands and, that it was the first thing he'd done himself and was really proud of, and he wasn't going to leave it when those barbarians would be "waltzing" there pretending as if they were only protecting their borders. Anyway, the impression was that he wasn't going to go anywhere, I was pretty sure he was die there. So, either he changed his mind, or something's not right here.
    I find that Brian's personality in Dreamfall has changed dramatically altogether when compared to TLJ. I'm not sure what that means, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quna View Post
    Actually, here's another crazy theory? Maybe Brian was killed there? Maybe the undreaming was "inside" him, but couldn't "govern" it, because his "soul" or something like it was there. And when he was "killed", the body and brain were left for the Undreaming alone? But I don't believe it myself.
    Neither do I. But if the Undreaming holds Brian now and didn't at the time of TLJ, then the Undreaming obviously got his memories as well, as for example he still remembers April.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quna View Post
    As for non-shifters, from what we know, everyone who passes through from one world to the other, HAS TO go through the world of Dreams. That's what shifting is: making a passage by "calling forth dreams", as Cortez said. It's just that non-shifters can't make such passage, and while the shifter can go through the Dreaming safely, non-shifters can't.
    If that is so, maybe that's how the people who use the Dreamers are turning out all mind-dead and the like. When they as non-shifters use the Dreamer, their minds travel to Arcadia. But, as you point out, they can't do that safely and get infected by the Undreaming. That could be a possible explanation for 'The Undreaming is unchained': now that the Dreamer has hit the market and everybody can use it, everybody can get infected/affected by the Undreaming. Zoe, being a Dreamer (the person, not the device), was immune to it.

    Maybe what happened to Brian in the Storytime was exactly the same as what is happening to people who use the Dreamer device, although they aren't aware of it happening.
    'Demons run when a good man goes to war.' - River Song (Doctor Who)

  12. #12
    Helpless dragon Skizzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    2,383
    Quote Originally Posted by Quna View Post
    Well, I'm not sure, but... As we know, or fro all facts and theories we gathered, the picture looks like this: Morpheus puts people in proper sleeping condition (proper - because I don't think simple sleeping pills would help the dreamer anyhow), connected to the dreamer, they begin proper dreaming (lucid dreaming with a few... "secondary effects"). Eingana recieves and stores information, let's assume the stolen dreams, and trapped dreams were seen in Arcadia. But I'm not sure if they all go through the Storytime. I suspect that the "place" where they pass has to be somehow linked to Stark's virtual "world". My guess is, that it's Winter, which is "linked" to the Storytime, or Dreaming. Whatever. Winter is where Faith appeared when she died in "dreaming condition", and while being there, she affected the wire. So, I guess Winter is the perfect place: it's somehow in the middle of dream and reality... I think.
    If Storytime is the place where dreams would normally end up, maybe the Dreaming device and Eingana prevent that from happening. The device lets you control your dreams, which is obviously very different from normal dreaming. Like you're awake in your own dream.
    'Demons run when a good man goes to war.' - River Song (Doctor Who)

  13. #13
    evolutionary sleeper
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    between the wheels
    Posts
    1,492
    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzo View Post
    I find that Brian's personality in Dreamfall has changed dramatically altogether when compared to TLJ. I'm not sure what that means, though.
    Well, to play the devil's advocate, sobering up after being drunk for a dozen years can affect one's personality a bit, can't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzo View Post
    Maybe what happened to Brian in the Storytime was exactly the same as what is happening to people who use the Dreamer device, although they aren't aware of it happening.
    Good idea - although I'd say it's similar but not the same. Brian was befriended directly by the Undreaming itself (themselves ), while the Dreamtime console users' dreams ended up with Peats. I think Peats was an agent of the Undreaming. Maybe he was a little too voracious when tempted by all those dreams, he consumed too many, and then he ended up being a nuisance instead of a useful agent - and then his assassination makes sense, too.
    A fully working kitchen holds a great many things, not least of which is a huge collection of ways of committing horrible murder, plus multiple ways of getting rid of the evidence.

  14. #14
    Skipping-rope Happy one's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Ukraine
    Posts
    1,071
    I associate Undreaming with irrational fear: it's dark, it's expanding. Though, this "interpretation" has no relation with TLJ saga.

    EDIT: You know how people say about something scary: "It can't be even imagined/dreamed".
    Last edited by Happy one; 08-19-2009 at 08:48 PM.
    Journey!
    The more I get, the more I want
    - as (h/m)oney.

  15. #15
    Remember KHH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    3,932
    Quote Originally Posted by Quna View Post
    Morpheus puts people in proper sleeping condition (proper - because I don't think simple sleeping pills would help the dreamer anyhow)
    Normal sleeping pills suppress dreaming, Morpheus obviously enhances it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzo View Post
    If Storytime is the place where dreams would normally end up, maybe the Dreaming device and Eingana prevent that from happening. The device lets you control your dreams, which is obviously very different from normal dreaming. Like you're awake in your own dream.
    Lucid dreaming doesn't bring about the end of the world...
    April Ryan is my friend,
    Every sorrow she can mend.
    When i visit her dark realm,
    Does it simply overwhelm.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •