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Thread: A game LIKE TLJ and Dreamfall?

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by karelrulez
    Blade Runner. [...] I can't believe this game hasn't been mentioned yet, it's a real Westwood classic.
    It has and it is.

    Something worth mentioning is, that Blade Runner is one of the few "modern" adventures (released around the end of 1997) where your choices actually affect progress and outcome of the game - there are several different branches the story can take and respective ends to achieve; story and characters of BR are well thought out, the atmosphere is gripping, puzzles and mini games range from simple to mean (the latter being a single scene in which only one pattern of action allows you to proceed - or survive at that) but are few and far between. In this respect, BR is probably more of a hybrid than Dreamfall.

    Edit: Regarding Datro's (next) post: agreed.
    Last edited by s.oliver; 05-15-2006 at 04:59 PM.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vainamoinen
    There are obviously "Syberia"-people and non-"Syberia"-people. Personally, I can't stand adventures which have no memorable characters (for example, Syberia) and almost no emotional response of the main character to objects, places and persons in the game (like in Syberia).
    I'm a bit late jumping in on this, but I had to comment. I'm really surprised that you thought Syberia had NO memorable characters! What about Kate Walker, Oscar and Hans? They're definitely memorable! And the train itself, in some ways, felt like a character (kind of like how the Millenium Falcon almost felt like a character in SW.) And Kate Walker DID have an emotional response to her environment-- that was the whole point of the game. She realized that she needed to leave her stuffy world behind and join Hans on his quest.
    No, it wasn't as good as TLJ, but it had more emotion than most games, by far.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by karelrulez
    Blade Runner.

    I can't believe this game hasn't been mentioned yet, it's a real Westwood classic.
    Blade Runner was fun overall, but I thought it sort of got shot in the foot because it wasn't actually your decisions that decided some key things in the game. Under certain storylines, the most important mystery in the whole game (what are you?) was decided randomly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sianna Tors
    [...] Under certain storylines, the most important mystery in the whole game (what are you?) was decided randomly.
    To a certain degree; every turn is based on player decisions, but the encounters or situations that decide about this could come up randomly, catching the player by surprise. Significant directions (like the question of your existence) are based on a trend of actions though - you have more than one "chance" to turn the tide into the direction you want it to go (at least in my experience).

  5. #50
    Verbose Hyperbolist Lee in Limbo's Avatar
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    Hmmn. I've seen a number of games presented that are sold on their very strong storytelling. Some I've played, a number I haven't. I'll see about correcting that in the days to come.

    However, while carefully trying to avoid games that I loved but felt were mainly puzzle games (understand, I have a different idea about this than some), I'll try to mention a few I remember and loved that I thought had some good storytelling, and maybe slip in one or two that really were more puzzle games with great environments, which can sometimes be almost as good (but not often).

    I have or have had in my collection a couple of games I wonder if anyone remembers. They could probably be best described as contemporaries of Gabriel Knight II. Black Dahlia and Temujin. I also played an interesting game called Byzantine: the Betrayal, but it glitched on me and I never finished it. These were all heavily live action-based games with lots of actors and dialogue and wandering about trying to unravel clues, with some unnamed dread hanging over your future. Mysteries. Very creepy, unsettling mysteries. The graphics and GUIs for these games are terribly dated now, but they were quite interesting and captivating, despite the overreliance on puzzles to ramp up the tension. The stories in these games were the prime focus, the thing that drove you to unravel all those ridiculous puzzles. Rarely a true action sequence, as they were all point and click, which did (and does) limit the methods you used to solve problems and save the day... or really, yourself.

    More puzzle game than true storytelling adventure, nonetheless, Buried In Time, the second Journeyman Project, had an appealing story, lots of intersting locations, and a fair bit of suspense. Again, the graphics are dated, being almost entirely computer-coloured cartoon graphics and low-resolution CGI sets, with a few live-action characters worked into one or two scenes. But the locations were really quite captivating at the time I played it. I don't know if it still lives up to my memories (probably not) but I played it a couple of times a handful of years ago, and I distinctly remember getting right into the groove and playing as much of it as possible until it was done.

    And just to balance the scales against those who have had some fairly disparaging things to say, I really liked Kate Walker in Syberia. Not love. She was alright, but she was no patch on April Ryan. And she had no butt. But she was an intriguing and conflicted woman, for the most part, who only ever left me wondering one thing: why the hell did she follow Hans all the way to Syberia? Oliver, maybe. The train, possibly. Even Han's dead sister might have been able to draw me into the adventure. But Hans himself? He slid right off my brain without leaving a mark. Nothing. But the game was pretty, and especially Valadilene, the train, and Kate (I do remember a handful of really awful voice actors though. Not all fo them, but a few standouts).

    And finally, I love the Myst series. Even the misbegotten bastard child... no, not Uru, I loved that too. I mean End of Ages. Most disappointing closer I could have imagined. Still, gorgeous, and not too mired in puzzles like Riven was. That was the only game in the series where the puzzles seriously threatened to outweigh my appreciation of the goreous scenery and the intriguing plot. And that's the thing that always set the series apart from the rest of the puzzle games; a deep, rich, intriguing plot which you had to decipher from clues and from studying leftover journals. Even a sense of denger, particualrly in the later episodes. Deeply involving without once picking a fight (although there was this guy with a hammer once... and that girl with the crossbow...). Even the puzzles made a certain amount of sense, and rarely felt as arbitrary as many insist. But anyway...

    I also really loved Blade Runner, but you guys have got that covered. One I didn't seee in the displaced noir catagory was Discworld: Noir, which I quite liked. Thought it really hit the Terry Pratchett vein dead on.

    Obsidian (the original) was bizarre and engrossing, though it really was a puzzle game at heart. The same goes for Lighthouse, though it had it's primitive charms.

    And the same goes for Shivers and its sequel, Shivers II. But they really were very chilling and totally engrossing. No violence, unless you call soul stealing spirits violent. But lots of chills, fear of death, and an involved and atmospheric environment. Even the puzzling had an air of menace and dread to it. You couldn't be sure if you were finding another clue or another evil spirit.

    I've played many others, but those are some of the games that stick out the most now.

    And I'd like to put in a brief recommendation for Keepsake, which I think did a lot of really nice things, even if that one voice actor is terribly annoying.
    Last edited by Lee in Limbo; 05-16-2006 at 07:12 AM.
    Lee Edward McIlmoyle,
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  6. #51
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    @Lee in Limbo: That's a nice list of adenture underdogs, thanks.

    It's curious though, with a few exceptions you seem to like the games I generally wasn't very fond of: first person cinematic adventures, usually in the tradition of either 7th guest or Phantasmagoria (9 CDs!); Some of them really connected with me, like The Beast Within or Ripper and while there seldomly was a truly abysmal title, almost none of them were exceptional either - in my opinion, of course. Also, somehow I always connected that sub-genre with the demise of On-Line Systems/Sierra; I wonder what would have become of the company and the adventure genre hadn't they miscalculated with many of their projects between 1994 and 1998. Judging by your list, you might also like Shadow of the Comet, Hell: A Cyberpunk Thriller or Tex Murphy games like Under a Killing Moon.

    Generally, I would also second buying Keepsake, but only if you're heavily into puzzles - there is a nice story and lots of dialogue, though the working cast comprises of just a hand full of characters, but the main focus lies on riddles, logical schemes and mini games which get more and more demanding as the underlying tale unfolds.

  7. #52
    Random Lurker Miral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s.oliver
    Judging by your list, you might also like Shadow of the Comet, Hell: A Cyberpunk Thriller or Tex Murphy games like Under a Killing Moon.
    Those last two definitely get my vote. Although Overseer wasn't as good as the rest of the Tex Murphy series.

    I'm not sure why you're calling Hell cinematic, though. It was one of the first games to do entirely CG animation for its cutscenes. Nary a FMV to be seen anywhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miral
    [...] I'm not sure why you're calling Hell cinematic, though. It was one of the first games to do entirely CG animation for its cutscenes. Nary a FMV to be seen anywhere.
    Shadow and Hell are included for the dark tone and scope of their stories (Shadow uses VGA/256 graphics and almost psychedelic colours - that's probably as far away from qualifying for FMV as possible), although with cinematic I don't necessarily mean using full motion videos - it's often a matter of perspective and direction of the game, the way character interaction is handled and similar devices.

  9. #54
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    I just went through Syberia 1 and 2 for thefirst time, so now I can comment on those too.

    first, I really enjoyed them, and I decided to try out Paradise as well (I've started playing that yesterday). But I think the puzzles, while very interesting and challenging, without ever coming to the point of frustration, kinda got you out of the suspension of disbelief, most of the times they were there just for the sake of hindering your journey, with no relevance to the story.

    Another thing that I think was weird is that there's next to no interaction besides dialogues and puzzles. Nothing to examine, no interactive objects put there just to enrich the background of the story and the feelings of the main character.

    so these games, IMHO, fail in comparison with TLJ/Dreamfall because they have less "soul" (although there are, indeed, some touching moments, at the end of both), for the sake of puzzles. I was really satisfied in finishing the games without the aid of any walkthroughs (I had to use UHS a couple of times on Syberia 2 only, in one case I already thought about the solution but couldn'd find the damn pixel, god I hate hardcore pixel hunting, and the other was that stupid clock thing in the dream, I knew the solution but who imagined how I had to do it...), still I got much more emotion and feeling of having gone through a meaningful Journey (capital J) after Ragnar's games.
    Balance provides.

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    I agree 100% with you. I liked Syberia I & II, but they seem to have less soul in it. Also, in both games it's not really a matter of 'saving the world'. In TLJ and Dreamfall you feel like you're totally involved in some kind of conspiracy etc..

    Speaking about Paradise, is it just me or does the game look flat out ugly? I just finished Dreamfall after I started playing it, maybe that's an explanation.

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    All these have great stories, deep characterization, and excellent voice acting. Games get installed and uninstalled in my PC, but only these guys left a lasting impression.

    Planescape: Torment (isometric RPG)
    System Shock 2 (FPS)
    Baldur's Gate series (isometric RPG)
    KOTOR I (RPG, 3rd person)
    Deus Ex 1 (FPS)

    Sorry I don't have to add any traditional adventure game to my list. I played Gabriel Knight parts I and II but, as much as I liked them, they didn't get so deep into my skin as any of the above. Considered adding American Macgee's Alice, and Clive Barker's Undying, both of which I also enjoyed tremendously, but wasn't sure.
    Last edited by hierogrammate; 05-17-2006 at 01:02 AM.

  12. #57
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    For story (and also for action, but I like the overall effect especially with the story) I would recommend Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time and Star Wars: Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast.

    Or perhaps they've both been mentioned already. I assume all the standard Adventure games have been named already, so I went with Action Adventure.

    If you have a Nintendo DS, there's also Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney with some great mystery and twists and lots of humor. Also text heavy like The Longest Journey, but also worth it. Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney 2: Justice For All comes out later this year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vainamoinen
    I
    But I hear it's like Dreamfall... it doesn't end, but gives you a cliffhanger instead.
    Dude! I haven't beat this game yet but now I know how it ends. Can you think next time before you blurt out a spoiler!

    Anyway to answer the question I REALLY enjoyed the story to Advent Rising. I hope there is a sequel to this game despite the bad reviews it got.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazie
    Anyway to answer the question I REALLY enjoyed the story to Advent Rising. I hope there is a sequel to this game despite the bad reviews it got.
    I, too enjoyed Advent Rising, though I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a sequel. Majesco ruined such possibiliy. The Mustard brothers might continue it someday, who knows...

    As for the reviews, ack, it seems they just saw it as a Halo-clone. I played Halo, and AR's storyline was just in another league alogether. Halo, as fun as it was, always felt to me as just another pretty-looking FPS. And story? What story? That was just veneer, since Halo was apparently built mainly with multiplayer mode in mind, and I've never really cared about multiplayer. Many of those reviewers seem to be multiplayer-centric (and would probably hate Dreamfall since it doesn't have mulltiplayer... just imagine it: multiple Zoe's running around--just running, since they can't jump--hacking each other's mobiles for hours on end).

    Sure that can be fun (and I play a couple of MMORPGs), but I like the more introspective, in-character, temporary suspension of disbelief of the single player experience.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jestas
    Another thing that I think was weird is that there's next to no interaction besides dialogues and puzzles. Nothing to examine, no interactive objects put there just to enrich the background of the story and the feelings of the main character.

    so these games, IMHO, fail in comparison with TLJ/Dreamfall because they have less "soul" (although there are, indeed, some touching moments, at the end of both), for the sake of puzzles. I was really satisfied in finishing the games without the aid of any walkthroughs (I had to use UHS a couple of times on Syberia 2 only, in one case I already thought about the solution but couldn'd find the damn pixel, god I hate hardcore pixel hunting, and the other was that stupid clock thing in the dream, I knew the solution but who imagined how I had to do it...), still I got much more emotion and feeling of having gone through a meaningful Journey (capital J) after Ragnar's games.
    I definitely agree with you about the lack of interaction in Syberia. That was something that really bothered me when I first started playing it-- the world was so incredible looking, and I wanted to be able to click on things and find out more about them, but alas, I couldn't. So my first impression wasn't so great. But as the game went on, it really grew on me. I actually like the fact that it wasn't yet another "save the world... you are the chosen one!" plot, but rather a simpler, more personal tale of self-discovery. It was a refreshing change.

    Oh, and yeah, that clock puzzle in Syberia 2 was kind of annoying, I have to agree with you there! I still don't know what I was supposed to do, I just played around with it enough, and eventually it worked. There were a few puzzles like that in Syberia 2, which seemed to rely on guesswork. Syberia 1 was better in that sense.

    Both the Syberia games and the Longest Journey games stayed with me long after I finished them, so I guess that's a sign that both series are done well.



    Oh, and question for anyone-- I'm debating between getting "Beyond Good & Evil" and "Indigo Prophecy." Which is better?

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