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Thread: A game LIKE TLJ and Dreamfall?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vainamoinen
    There are obviously "Syberia"-people and non-"Syberia"-people. Personally, I can't stand adventures which have no memorable characters (for example, Syberia) and almost no emotional response of the main character to objects, places and persons in the game (like in Syberia). The backrounds in that game were very nicely done, but incredibly empty. That had a kind of appeal during the first hours, but got very, very boring pretty fast.
    I'm definitely a "non-Syberia" person too, though I don't hate Syberia half as much as I do the Myst games. Veraxus summed Syberia up perfectly, the story is just there to lead you from one boring puzzle to the next.

    I'm not sure what to make of Paradise. The plot summary makes it sound like quite possibly the least exciting/interesting game I've ever read about, but it might just be deliberately vague.

  2. #32
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    I think all the lucasarts adventure games are great (zak mckracken isn't as good though cause you can run out of money)
    the leisure suit larry games are fun
    flight of the amazon queen
    escape from delirium
    beneath a steel sky
    simon the sorcerer trilogy
    Prince of persia 1,2, 3D, SoT

    and many more

  3. #33
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    I'm surprised, that noone mentioned Daemonica!
    I also agree with Neverwinter Nights Series and Vampire Masquarade - Bloodlines

  4. #34
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    Syberia 1&2
    Grim Fandango
    Simon the Sorcerer 1&2

    maybe Broken Sword 1&2, Monkey Island, Kyrandia. I never managed to play Myst till now.

    As a personal note: If Syberia would have been 1 game, with graphic from 2nd part and feeling from 1 part, it would have been very close in beating TLJ for 1st place adventure in my heart - but still, it would have lost for an inch.

  5. #35
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    Well here is my list : TLJ (the game that changed my life for ever)
    Dreamfall
    Baldurs Gate2
    Planescape Torment
    Monkey Island
    Icewind Dale (all of them)
    Xwing Alliance and of course Freespace 2

  6. #36
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    Flight of the Amazon Queen, an Indiana Jones-esque graphic adventure from 1995, is also still fun to play.

  7. #37
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    My favorite story-driven games-

    Grim Fandango for memorable characters and music.
    LOOM for just being a classic.
    Monkey Island series for being hilarious.
    Sam & Max Hit the Road for being completely random and hilarious.
    The old Sierra adventures- Kings/Space/Heros Quest, for starting it all.
    Wing Commander series for an epic storyline.
    Star Control 2 for memorable alien races and humorous dialogue.
    Starcraft/Warcraft for fleshing out the universe in huge depth, though it's a bit cliched.
    Final Fantasy 4-8 and Chronotrigger- Square was on a roll during this time.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonarchX
    Something totally OUT of whack like Dreamfall? ORIGINAL and CREATIVE? Not some dragons and goblins thing...
    Sorry...I can't really let someone dismiss Planescape: Torment (PS:T) too quickly. So let me step up to bat for the game.

    It contains no dragons, orcs, or goblins. No happy hobbits. I'll say without reservation it's the finest RPG ever made - that nobody bought. For thought-provoking story, it's still my only 10 out of 10 in all computer games, knocking Star Control 2 out of my favorite game I've ever played. (Dreamfall's story comes in a close second, sometimes tying depending on my mood due to its presentation and attention to detail. )

    Don't let the Dungeons and Dragons license on fool you. The game contains no dragons, instead it occurs in the Outer Planes (the extreme edges of existence where the rules are ... different). It does have an RPG stat system, but it's closer to an adventure game or a debate about philosphy than an RPG. There's huge thrust of the game's theme that is 180 degrees different from most other fantasy stories out there (including TLJ) that I'm dying to tell you, but I can't without spoiling you, so I won't.

    PS:T's philosphy isn't like the psuedo-philosphical junk that Japanese RPGs and anime spout to try and make their games about underaged schoolgirls seem profound. PS:T, the philosphy is real and important. In fact, the philosphy is the central point of the game. Like Dreamfall, PS:T has a central emotional theme that's summed up as "What can change the nature of a man?" The answer is in the game.

    A few warnings about the game if you do get it (and I don't think your life as a story-based gamer will ever be complete without playing it):

    Like Dreamfall and The Longest Journey there's a ton of talking that people do in the game. As a warning, this translates to a ton of reading - unfortunately it was made before it was easy to put in tons of recorded dialogue - the game would have been helped immensely by spoken dialogue. There's some spoken dialogue, but not enough. Like Dreamfall, the interface can be a bit clunky, though once it's fine once you get used to it. It's also a bit older, and even when new the graphics weren't the best ever, so you'll have to bear with that, too.

    The story will start slowly and seems a bit unfocused and non-linear at first. For a while you won't be too sure what you're supposed to be doing. It's necessary to introduce players who have no idea what the PS:T universe is like, or think PS:T is like another "orcs and goblins" fantasy game to the universe (a pretty understandable concern for people who want to get away from that). Once PS:T's story becomes clear though, it should grip intensely. By the second half of the game, the story and gameplay become pretty linear, but you won't care.

    It's standard D&D stats. But unlike most D&D games, you want to emphasize your Wisdom, Intelligence, and Charisma. These will give you the most dialogue options and will let you avoid a lot of combat (and the game's rewards are often better for avoiding combat than getting into it).

    Talk to everyone and save often so you can explore different dialogue and action paths. Everyone has something to say, especially your companions in your "party" on your journey. Though they'll sometimes strike up a conversation with you, it's important for you to go and talk to them often - they'll actually change in their views and personality if you talk to them a lot, you can gain nifty abilities from them (and them from you), and you'll gain a deeper insight into the nature of your character (the most important thing).

    Your dialogue and actions make a difference. That horrible "alignment" thing will change depending on your actions and decisions, especially in dialogue. The game has a number of different endings.

    Oh. And you can't die. Or should I say you don't stay dead. But you're not some vampire or something cliche like that. Trust me on this - you can't die and stay dead (with a single exception that will be made abdundantly clear). There's a few points where you can make the game unsolvable but helpfully, the game will end at those points and tell you that you can't complete it. Sometimes, dying will help you advance your cause, in fact. And why you can't die ... well, that's one of the central mysteries to the game. And I can almost assure it's not what you'd ever guess.

    If you do get PS:T, feel free to PM me on here - I can always give you hints or discuss the story. It has a gut-wrenching twist like KotoR's story, but it's more of a slow poison than a knockout punch - you'll only realize the enormity of if you really think back about the people you've run into during the game.
    Last edited by Sianna Tors; 05-13-2006 at 10:12 AM.

  9. #39
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    I'll just be lazy and quote myself from another thread.
    You could try Blade Runner (Win), Still Life (Win), The Case of the Rose Tattoo (playable in Win), Grim Fandango (Win), Flight of the Amazon Queen or Beneath a Steel Sky (both now free and completely playable under Win with ScummVM *) - all of these have mystery/detective themes similar to the games you mentioned. If you're out for any great adventure, get ScummVM (that you should do in any case) and play Day of the Tentacle, arguably the best adventure game ever made as well as pearls like Simon the Sorcerer, Kyrandia or the first two Discworld games which have fantasy themes similar to the Arcadia sequences in TLJ. There are alot more games fitting your initial list, but many of them neigh-unplayable today due to strange DOS memory managers or sheer age (Ripper, the 7th Guest, Dreamweb to mention a few).

    * http://scummvm.org/
    Regarding Planescape Torment: a game about a guy coming to consciousness under strange circumstances, right? I dimly remember playing it, then disregarding it for a while, and when the time came around to install it again the second CD was damaged. Still bugs me, lol.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by s.oliver
    I'll just be lazy and quote myself from another thread.


    Regarding Planescape Torment: a game about a guy coming to consciousness under strange circumstances, right? I dimly remember playing it, then disregarding it for a while, and when the time came around to install it again the second CD was damaged. Still bugs me, lol.
    Sort of strange, yes. Unusual is what I can say without spoilers.

  11. #41
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    If you can get hold of it (and don't mind some tinkering around with DosBox) I would definitely recommend you play Traffic Department 2192, which despite its age I would still consider to be one of about five games I can think of with plots approaching the standard of TLJ/Dreamfall. (The rest of the list would go something like: Blade Runner, Shenmue, Deus Ex....actually that's about it, depressing eh?)

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sianna Tors
    Planescape: Torment ... without reservation it's the finest RPG ever made - that nobody bought.
    Nice memory, I, for one, bought Planescape: Torment, and you are right, one excellent game that would still be considered innovative in many ways would it be released today.

    Do you know what bugs me? Computer games evolved and improved in so many ingenious ways from the old DOS days very much up to the end of the 90's when Planescape Torment was released. And then? Big business took over and started to refine the look & feel and to improve on the mass appeal. How many truly great games did we get since 2000? There are games like Dreamfall, sure. Still DF feels compromised in a way that the designers of a game like Planescape Torment never would have accepted.

    I often wondered why Planescape Torment didn't sell well. There were three games released in 1999/2000, Planescape Torment, Soulbringer and Deus Ex, that stood above the rest in respect of dedication to the detail of gameplay, immersive story and most importantly the ethical quality of what the characters (and player) can do. Just the sort of games that I am looking for. But guess what? I couldn't get to these games. It wasn't that they were not available on store shelves.

    It was, believe it or not, their box design. These three games appeal largely to people who feel empathy and care for the characters and worlds they live in. I am the type of guy who checks in on a computer games store every now and then, just to see what they have got on shelves, and I remember that I viewed the boxes of those three games many times. I even picked them up to look at the screenshots and the description at the back cover more than once.

    Today, after having played these games I even appreciate their covers, their style of art, but unfortunately they did a very poor job and put off their audience. Soulbringer's box art invoked in me thoughts along the line, nice fantasy world but judging from the cover the story appears way too brutal for my taste; in the case of Deus Ex my thoughts run along the line, seems like another game where I get to shoot at things (mindlessly), there appears to be a background story but that's probably just that; looking at the back cover confirmed this, it featured squads in action and weaponry; and in the case of Planescape Torment the game was presented as a story of someone waking up in a crematory among many dead, and having to find one's way out. That just put me off, I don't think many people who love refined gameplay and value empathy found this presentation appealing, and the front cover showing a brutal looking guy did nothing to dispel this. Box art is important. Would you think the Longest Journey would have sold as many copies as it did, had the cover shown an ugly dead character or a bloodthirsty monster? Good grief, it wouldn't have sold.

    I know it is not sensible to blame people, but the failure in the design of the boxes of these three games had an impact on the entire industry. Designers started to doubt that there are many people looking for a refined gamestyle and game worlds that are all about detail and full of things that you can care for. This is truly a pity. In the end I picked up Soulbringer because I stumbled upon a good review, and it was only for an inofficial Soulbringer forum, in which people discussed in which games all decisions of the player matter, that I learned what titles Deus Ex and Planescape Torment truly were.

    Planescape Torment is indeed one of the greatest games created, not only for the absolutely awesome story revolving around ethics, but it shows in so many ways that the people who worked on it really cared for what they did. It never lets you down.
    Last edited by Quantomas; 05-14-2006 at 04:56 PM.

  13. #43
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    I had an oppurtunity to speak with some of the devs of Torment some (probably too many) years ago at some computer gaming convention - it might have been E3 (back in the days when I had friends who could get me into these things). I asked them why Planescape didn't get the kind of attention it deserved, despite the critical praise (I've yet to see a site that gave Torment a bad review. A review with provisos? Sure, but not a bad review).

    Their conclusion was that people were turned off by the fact it was a D&D game - so assumably it had orcs, elves, and guys who look like people from Shakespearian Dinner Theater standing around talking about claiming their birthright with their father's sword. Others familiar with D&D were turned-off by a D&D game using the Planescape license - most of the happy elf players thought Planescape was too weird.

    Most of all, they agreed with you. It was poor box design. Not just in putting the Nameless One on the cover, but also the color selection. The hue of orange on the cover is referred to in marketing circles as "Sales Killer Orange" (I kid you not) and the shadowed bluish form of the Nameless One also turned people off. It was unclear the point of the game by looking at the cover - there's little sense of mystery. It's just a guy with a cloak. I think it was Feargus Urqhart who jokingly pointed out to me that sales probably would have been a lot better if they had Annah on the cover.

    Pretty sad for a game that's still considered within the gaming industry as the bar for story, writing, and character development. It was funny when I was signing up for the Middle-Earth Online beta and "Torment" was selectable as one of the games you've played in the past.

  14. #44
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    I don't really know any more, everything I said before I take back as there is really no game as good as Dreamfall. I hope it will inspire other companies to make better games. I just got Paradise from the creator of Siberia and was so dissapointed with it as I was expecting much more.

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