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kizzcee007
09-06-2003, 12:31 PM
So come on then, I'm bursting to play the next game. Any idea of a date yet? Getting serious withdrawal symptoms!;)

the Poet
09-06-2003, 01:47 PM
2005 sometime

kizzcee007
09-06-2003, 03:36 PM
thanks hun.....I guess it'll be well worth the wait!

RaMa
09-06-2003, 05:07 PM
Meanwhile, check out my site about the sequel http://www.tljs.tk ;).

Hilander
09-06-2003, 05:43 PM
Does anyone else get the feeling that the developers know they have a hit on their hands and just can't bring themselves to actually trying to top it? If you read RaMa's site and the sublinks, you get the feeling that they are just a wee bit disorganized and can't really get off the spot - twiddling with "new technologies" "spinning possible plots", but with NO real idea of where to go and waiting for lightning to strike for the second time?:confused:

Day
09-06-2003, 05:53 PM
I can see your point and it's a good one. The Longest Journey won the PC Adventure game of the year in 2000 so I would assume that would make them want to make this game that much better. It will be over 5 years since the first was created and they may feel discouraged because, even in that small amount of time, game play has improved dramatically. They may have more to work with tech. wise and want to make sure that balances out well with the plot. I've checked out RaMa's site as well (great research RaMa! ;) ) but I still get the feeling that it will be worth the wait...as long as it has been...

Hilander
09-06-2003, 06:13 PM
But just how long do they intend to dither? If they wait for tech progress to suddenly grow satic they'll never it it out. Pick a point in time, pick a particular technology and go with it. I check RaMa's site fairly regularly and while there is a lot good research there, he is an apologist for the writers.

Somebody has got to tell them GET OF THE SPOT! FINISH THIS @#$%^&^% PROJECT AND SEE HOW IT SELLS. If Ford had waited for perfection, we'd still be riding horses. This is still just a game. Even Michaelangelo had to finish the Sustine Chapel.

Based on what I have been able to read, they haven't even decided on a story line yet and they need that to even start putting the script together but then, maybe it's easier to sit back and let the royalties roll in while contemplating their navels and thinking deeply about what ifs and maybes. Even the Syberia sequel is almost ready to go - put off for some fine tuning of the art work (which is, by the way masterful) but they HAVE set a commit date. We'don;t even have a possible issue YEAR, just promises that someday, somehow they will finally decide to maybe do something. :mad:

It is also possible that their dithering and delaying may raise expectations so high that nobody could fulfil them and I wonder if Ragnar and Co are prepared to have mobs of TLJ fans screaming for his blood.

Day
09-06-2003, 06:27 PM
Keep in mind that Michaelangelo wasn't completely happy with the end result of the Sistine Chapel but he was pressured to finish it. I can relate to working on something to the brink of almost obsession. Point made there though... They should think about the basic "supply and demand" prospect of business. Some people may not be nearly as interested in this game (or others for that matter) in about 2 more years. That shouldn't sacrifice the content of the game though just because people are waiting for it.

Hilander
09-06-2003, 07:29 PM
Of course they seem to be based in the :social paradise" of Scandinavia - Norway, I think - so it is possible that the idea of supply, demand AND technical sophisitcation of a targe market doesn't come into play/

If they insist on perfection to their satisfaction, then they may let their gigantic ego overload their hummingbird audience. I doubt if any writer, painter, sculptor has been or is ever completely satisfied with his work those of true quality rarely are, but there comes a time when it is either produce and get the product on the market, or lose your audience. As much as I like TLJ, the longer I wait for the sequel, the less likely I am to buy it just on the original - and I suspect I am not alone in this. I am old enough to have been regularly disappointed by sequels or over hyped products.

RaMa
09-06-2003, 07:44 PM
Here goes my positive blabbering again. But hey, I'm an optimistic kind of guy ;).

What makes you think they don't even have a story line yet? They have a story line, but it's not entirely finished. And with that I mean that Ragnar probably has written the entire story and I think at least a big part of the script, but it isn't the way he wants it to be.

"I was supposed to be working on the TLJ.s story (which is receiving its 648th polish - it's still not shiny enough, but we're getting close)"
-from RagnarTornquist.com (http://www.ragnartornquist.com/2003_08_01_thoughtsarchive.html#106173510290624384 )

He's polishing the story untill it's near to perfect. And that's better than rushing the development a bit to get it ou quickly. If they do that and see how it sells, they'll be taking a big chance. The chance that the game isn't as good as people expected will be much higher when they rush the development, because it's simply a less better game than they promised. Or it might contain a lot of bugs like in Anarchy Online. If they don't rush the game but take their time, they will create a better game and thus the chance that the game will be less better than the people expected will be smaller. Yes, the expectations will probably rise a bit for some people, but the game's still better than if they rush it. I think the people will look past that little disappointment (if there is any).

Hilander
09-06-2003, 10:01 PM
Well. ;et's see, another 600+ [o;ishings then they start to write the software but they will need 700 reqorks because of tech advances either in expistence or rumored at meeting and seminars.

If you polish anything TOO much you wear it out OR you wear your buyes out with waiting and they decide it may not nr worth the trouble or even worse the game is overhyped, polished to death but it is SO Perfect that it is only 5 years too late and the market ain't there no more.

Plus, perfection is an unattainable objective and Tornquist nor Gates nor Jobs will ever acheive it. And if he waits until he egois satisfied with HIS idea of perfection - what happens when the game comes out - perfect in all ways in his mind, and it FLOPS. nadly. It has happened in the past, is happening now and will always happen.

TLJ was by no means perfect, good but not perfect. Graphics were impressive, but so were the graphics in Syberia (animations, actually better in the detail work). But not perfect = repetitive and often clumsy movements, distorted proportions (viz April's hands and arms in some scenes) and awkward movements of some characters, Dialogues were good the FIRST TIME but even the first time around certain characters kept repeating themselves (Yerin in particular)

But I doubt if Ragnar can even get around some of the limitations of animation and the sheer problem of space requirments - there IS a practical limit on the KN usable - I doubt if nanyone had a terabyte drive yet and to make ALL actions completely and perfectly realisting would require FMV and some damned fine animators and unlimited size for the program. I doubt if I would buy a 10 dsk game or go to the trouble and expense of adding DVD capability just to play a game. The present TLJ is massive and takes a pretty long time to load - and bugs increase with size, as you may have noted from all the texh support requests on this site alone.

RaMa there IS a limit to how long a market will wait, particularly an amusement market depenant on discretionary income and VERY passing tastes and if Ragnar doesn't rea;ize that, he may come knocking on a door only find the residents have moved.:)

RaMa
09-06-2003, 11:44 PM
I said near perfect, not perfect.

Yes. There is a limit to how long a market will wait, but I don't think the game will be in development that long. Surely the market can wait two years. I believe it's the average time a good game takes to be built.

Btw, why don't you write Ragnar an e-mail about all this? Maybe he can explain a bit more precisely at what stage the development is.

the Poet
09-07-2003, 12:32 AM
I think they are trying to keep details secret, and maybe trick fans to contemplate on the wrong things.......

Hilander
09-07-2003, 03:39 AM
Originally posted by RaMa
I said near perfect, not perfect.
Btw, why don't you write Ragnar an e-mail about all this? Maybe he can explain a bit more precisely at what stage the development is. Better if you did, he doesn't know me from Odin and night be offended that a lowlu customer dared to question his quest for perfection or the future health of his company. You can only life so long on the reputation of one product and then it becomes "puy up ot shut up" and all this delay is revealing ANYTHING is getting close to that point.

Day
09-07-2003, 05:25 AM
I should hope that Ragnar doesn't think of us game players as lowly. I think that he would value critics as well as praisers. It's great that we are all given the opportunity to talk about things we like and dislike about the game. Who knows, maybe Ragnar already reads this site and takes things into consideration...

Hilander
09-07-2003, 04:21 PM
He may but if he does take the time from his meditation on perfection, he sure doesn't seem to be pauing much attention they haven;t even announced what platform they are thinking of using nor any even vague idea of a game objective. By now they should have at least hit on a rough idea of where they;re going and, if it were me, I;d float an idea on the net to see if that is an acceptable one. Can you picture a TLJ with NONE of the characters from the original in it? Gone with the Wind without Scarlet O;Hara?

RaMa
09-07-2003, 06:38 PM
They've given us enough information about the gameplay and the story for now. We know it's gonna be in third person, but with fixed camera positions. We also know we'll be able to play three characters and that one of them is called Zoë and that she has to resque April. We also know Crow will be back and ofcourse April too.

Keep in mind they just started production. Usually they don't give any info about a game untill it's been in development for about a year.

Michael Elboim
09-07-2003, 09:08 PM
I think they should at least update the site... but that's what RaMa is here for! right RaMa!? hey! why don't you offer yourself as The Longest Journey site manager!? I think you could be great! I mean... the site is really good! but looks to me like the manager is tired...

Anyway I think they should give us a picture or two from the game... a pic of that Zoë could be nice... Whay kind of name is Zoë anyway? oh well...

P.S -What's P.S!? I wish somone will tell me one day!
P.P.S -... and what's P.P.S? oh well anyway my P.P.S is---
-I'm going to clean my room for the first time ...... ever! it's going to be great!! in the morning... i'll take the whole day for this... wish me luck! (Good Luck Mic!!!):D

RaMa
09-07-2003, 09:20 PM
PS means postscriptum, which means uhm... postscript :). It's a kind of epilogue for a letter.

Apply for the official TLJ site manager? I don't think I'll even get hired :P. I don't think the site manager is tired, but he just isn't allowed to post any news (yet). We'll get some news soon enough, be it on Ragnar's site or on the official TLJ site. Ragnar said so. I don't know if it'll be big news, but Ragnar said they're going to distrubute little amounts of news so that it'll stay interesting.

A picture of Zoë will be nice, yes. Until now we only got to see a fragment of the poster and the rest of the info about the game was all text. It'd be really nice to get a picture in stead of some text info.

PS. Good luck cleaning your room, Mike ;).

Hilander
09-07-2003, 10:00 PM
Who the $%^%&* is Zoe?

RaMa
09-08-2003, 10:14 AM
Didn't you read the Adventure Gamers interview? There's where Ragnar gives us the most info. Here's the link:
http://adventuregamers.com/display.php?id=262

RaMa
09-08-2003, 07:10 PM
Ragnar reacted:
http://www.ragnartornquist.com/2003_09_01_thoughtsarchive.html#106301835948712605

Hilander
09-08-2003, 07:32 PM
Essentialy "Shut up, sit down and take what we give you if and when we DO."

That new versios had better nbe the Ultimate, no way anybody will ever top it or Ragnar is going to sink into obscurity. There is a point where professional pride becomes suicidal arrogance and he;s getting close.

Even Gates ain't this arrogant. But it IS a free world and, lest RT forget, it is also a freemarket. So as of now, I think I will wait for the reviews by independent, non-sychophants and word of mouth tell me the follow up is worth the price rather, than as I have planned, gettng in without question. In other words, RT, NOW YOU have to sell ME!

davidm
09-09-2003, 03:24 AM
I think you all are a bit overboard. You made all this sound like Ragnar is God of TLJ. It is not up to him to reveal things you ask for. He works for a company and when new projects come up people keep their mouths shut… Why? Use your heads people. New ideas have to kept confidentially due to “protection” and other legal issues. Simple, you have developed a new gaming engine that will “blow you off’. Obviously you will keep your mouth shut or else your revolution will become a simple revelation (others may simply steal your ideas).
Ragnar takes all feedback, that is why he read even this post that is full of complains and childish negativity. “Shut up, sit down and take what we give you if and when we DO." Come on people? Use your common sense… Ragnar is not against forums either. There are so many communities where he responds to people and posts their messages in his journal. All of us communicate and so does he. Guess why he did not reply to this post?
Update the site… The official broken sword site is up More than a year after it’s announcement? Why? Same reasons as above. Meditation on perfection… hmm. Gaming industry is something that makes billons of dollars. And then all of you sit and just complain, it better be perfect. And who said there will be no characters from TLJ1? THE SPOT! FINISH THIS @#$%^&^% PROJECT AND SEE HOW IT SELLS” –do you think they just sit there and brainstorm…? “On what I have been able to read, they haven't even decided on a story line” come on again… You have hundreds of ideas and everything needs to be polished. That is what they probably do… it takes Time… I am old enough to have been regularly disappointed by sequels or over hyped products… That is why they are working hard on a continuation.
I am sorry if I broke anybody’s feelings and by all means I did not want to frame anybody. But you guys should come down a little and be a bit less negative. We must understand that TLJ2 is not just for satisfaction. It is to make money. And business needs time and careful planning, we should sit and wait.. And I do really trust this guy “who is trying to be perfect”. There should not a personal vendetta between all of you and him. Ragnar is working hard lets give him a chance to prove his point…!
David M

Pirateguybrush
09-09-2003, 05:36 AM
I don't care how long it takes, as long as it's true to the original, and not full of action.

Michael Elboim
09-09-2003, 07:32 AM
ok good news... and bad news...
Good news: I cleand my room! and redacorate it... it looks... >sniff< ... so much place!! so much room!! so much tired......
anyway the Bad news is.....: I need 3000 shekels... (Israeli money) ... it's about 683 dolars... where the hell am I gonna get this in a week!?!?!??

oh and that Zoë sounds cool... I wish I could see her... let's talk about her name... what the heck is that letter!?? ë? I see only the letter "Caf" in hebrew...

RaMa
09-09-2003, 09:00 AM
Originally posted by davidm
I think you all are a bit overboard. You made all this sound like Ragnar is God of TLJ. It is not up to him to reveal things you ask for. He works for a company and when new projects come up people keep their mouths shut… Why? Use your heads people. New ideas have to kept confidentially due to “protection” and other legal issues. Simple, you have developed a new gaming engine that will “blow you off’. Obviously you will keep your mouth shut or else your revolution will become a simple revelation (others may simply steal your ideas).
Ragnar takes all feedback, that is why he read even this post that is full of complains and childish negativity. “Shut up, sit down and take what we give you if and when we DO." Come on people? Use your common sense… Ragnar is not against forums either. There are so many communities where he responds to people and posts their messages in his journal. All of us communicate and so does he. Guess why he did not reply to this post?
Update the site… The official broken sword site is up More than a year after it’s announcement? Why? Same reasons as above. Meditation on perfection… hmm. Gaming industry is something that makes billons of dollars. And then all of you sit and just complain, it better be perfect. And who said there will be no characters from TLJ1? THE SPOT! FINISH THIS @#$%^&^% PROJECT AND SEE HOW IT SELLS” –do you think they just sit there and brainstorm…? “On what I have been able to read, they haven't even decided on a story line” come on again… You have hundreds of ideas and everything needs to be polished. That is what they probably do… it takes Time… I am old enough to have been regularly disappointed by sequels or over hyped products… That is why they are working hard on a continuation.
I am sorry if I broke anybody’s feelings and by all means I did not want to frame anybody. But you guys should come down a little and be a bit less negative. We must understand that TLJ2 is not just for satisfaction. It is to make money. And business needs time and careful planning, we should sit and wait.. And I do really trust this guy “who is trying to be perfect”. There should not a personal vendetta between all of you and him. Ragnar is working hard lets give him a chance to prove his point…!
David M
Very good first post there, David :). Couldn't have said it better myself.

I was part of the Midgard (http://www.worldofmidgard.com) fancommunity before it was put on permanent hold. I think one of the reasons Funcom put it on permanent hold, other than the fact they thought people were gonna see it as 'just another fantasy MMORPG', was that other games in the work have/had a few simular idea's about the trading system. I think Funcom is therefor being more careful with the announcing of new games. Its next MMORPG (http://www.nebith.cjb.net) will be announced later for example, compared with when Midgard was announced. The only reason they've announced TLJ.s is that people already knew the first game and they wanted a sequel so badly.

I think Funcom has been quite good to us.

Hilander
09-09-2003, 04:43 PM
If he does, it doesn't seem to be affecting him in the slightest. "Pretty close" to a story line?

I've always thought you need at least a solid idea of what you;re going to write before you start to write. I know I need to know where I am going with an appeal of a case before I start to write the brief, and I work with something a bit more valuable than entertainment - freedom and time neither of which even God can give back.

RaMa
09-09-2003, 07:09 PM
You have no clue what's going on at Funcom and it's not Funcom's obligation to tell us everything what's going on. You don't know how much story they have, what Ragnar and his co-writer have in mind for the storyline, what 's finished and what needs polishing and how much and why. Maybe they have a very good reason to not show us anything at the moment. Maybe they don't. But don't go judging a company when you don't know what's going on inside it.

Hilander
09-09-2003, 07:34 PM
Why not, I do that EVERY time I buyy a stock, or bond and I sure do it every time I buy a product. Or do YOU go to the factory and watch them MAKE you car, shirts, motherboard whatever. If they want us to buy why should they expect us to do so blindly and solely on their ifs and or maybes. This constant "keep the public in the dark" may well work against them. I am getting less and less inclined to buy the new game SOLELY on the strength of the current one. For all I know this could be another shoot and scoot or, God forbid Schizm.

RaMa
09-09-2003, 07:47 PM
You misunderstood. I meant that you musn't judge Funcom the way you do, because you have no idea what's going on. It sounds to me you think Funcom is holding back just to keep us players in the dark, but maybe they have a better reason to do hold information back. Like David and I said; Funcom can't go blabbering about what they've got and how it all works at this very early stage of development, because some idea's might get snatched. Ofcourse I don't know this for sure since I'm not a Funcom employee, but the point is that Funcom might very well have a good reason for all this and until you don't know what that reason is I think you aren't allowed to judge them.

Hilander
09-09-2003, 08:02 PM
First of all someone wants to sell me something Iam not only ALLOWED to judges them,I bloody well BETTER judge them. Secondly in better than 60 years in this bright world and wide, I have never seen a "preview" KILL a movie. And foreshadowing a product is most often the best idea - unless you're afraid that the new can NEVER equal the original.