Glitch or not?

[cara-syb@hotmai]

When April was in the caves following the hooded figure, out on the water I saw a person it wasn't just a person out standing on water but it was an outline of a person like in games when a you make your character invisable and you can still see them because their coloring is different from the background.
I was just wondering if anyone else saw it or if it was just a glitch. It was weird.

[Typhon]

When April was in the caves following the hooded figure, out on the water I saw a person it wasn't just a person out standing on water but it was an outline of a person like in games when a you make your character invisable and you can still see them because their coloring is different from the background.
I was just wondering if anyone else saw it or if it was just a glitch. It was weird.


Yeah, I saw it. I think it's a weird glitch. It looks like Zoe to me.

http://serv2.imagehigh.com/files/ih000001/11212_strange.JPG

[MightyFurcules]

Ha! I thought it was just me seeing things-- maybe because I was playing the game for too long and it was making me a bit wonkers (uh, no pun intended). :D Anybody have any other ideas, or are we just thinking it's a glitch?

[Artfan]

Yeah, I'm guessing it's a glitch, it definitely looked like the zoe model.

[kitanasanti]

I thought that was just me too... Heh.

[cara-syb@hotmai]

I thought that it looked like Zoe too
At first I thought that I was just imaging things since I had been playing it for who knows how long.

[isondil]

I didn't se anything:P

[MightyFurcules]

It sorta reminded me of the Predator (from the Predator movies, that is), or the Jem'Hadar from Deep Space Nine, when they "cloak." :D

[Hypersapien]

What you are actually seeing through the silhouette is the land on the other side of the lake without the water or buildings being rendered.

[Numinous]

Yeah, it looked like a Zoe model. It was pretty weird when I saw it, but I just took it as a glitch.

[Dave]

it obviously IS Zoe model. i thought i was the only one who saw that..but it seems its a major thing :D someone forgot to remove her from tessting or something.

[NeoKobeJunker]

perhaps it has meaning, like Zoe's dream stuck in Arcadia.

You cant see it when your Zoe right?

[Dave]

perhaps it has meaning, like Zoe's dream stuck in Arcadia.

You cant see it when your Zoe right?
no you cant. i think its some sort of glitch.

[grumbel]

Nice glitch, didn't spotted that one. What I however did spot where numerous characters disapearing into thin air in Arcadia, most likly due to the lack of "door open" animations and similar things to let characters disapear in a believable way, felt really weird, since in a world of magic porting around might be quite doable.

I also had numerous glitches with objects changing their size (wine bottle, weapons, robots in the background) at random.

[LordSeth]

grumbel those character disappearing is not a glitch it's just the way it is...
when u get to a certain place where another place of (example-)Marcuria is being loaded so when people will get to that place they will disappear what is really amazing in the game is that if u enter the next place a second after they did you'll still see them. most games don't bother to check to position of those characters compering to ur position. or just like making it that some 3 perticular characters will be walking randomly around in this area and when hitting a "loading space" they will disappear for few seconds and show up again from wherever... this game however did a great job about those random chacaters.u can't expect them to continue walking on the space after the loading space because this space is not really there to walk on hard to explain. the programmers here will understand (and if they are really smart they will correct my last sentence to a way we all can understand. i can't put it into better words)

[grumbel]

grumbel those character disappearing is not a glitch it's just the way it is...
Yes, its not a real glitch, but it really didn't look good at all. They really should have added some proper animations to let the characters walk out of the scene instead of just having them disappear. The thing is that they didn't just disappear in the loading space, but also far infront of it, that guy that was captured infront of the tower disappeared right in the middle of the street, so did Kian after the first dialog with April, the next real scene change was still quite a bit away and another character disapeared into a door of some house, a door open animation would have helped here a lot. Many games to a lot better then that and makes sure that characters never disappear right in front of you, but only when they are out of your view or far away, but in Dreamfall they did that right infront of my eyes, right in the middle of the street. It really distracted a lot.

And when we aleady are at distraction, I also found the loading screen extremly annoying, not because of loading times, but simply because they distracted a lot, they looked more like the change from one chapter to another, instead of a change from one room to another, a simple fade-to-black would have done a lot better in many situations than that huge Dreamfall logo and the rotating background.

[Emoe]

This may in fact be a bug, but maybe - just maybe - it's one hell of hint suggesting that this is the location of Eingana in Arcadia.

Remember Zoë just inserted the worm (see the attached picture - http://razing.net/images/Chapter5_ZoeOutlineInWater.jpg) before it cuts over to April. Now look at where Zoë's silhouette is in Arcadia - on the water at roughly the same location where one could expect to see the tank that contains Eingana.

Now lets think about this a little more. April can't cross to the other side of the river because there isn't a bridge. She has to travel in to the compound to the left of the picture, up a level, and *then* she finds a bridge. If you use Zoë as your point of reference the bridge is roughly in the same spot as the one found in WATICorp! (As a simple way to prove this to yourself remember Zoë is spacially below the bridge in WATICorp, because she travels down a flight of stairs to get to the platform to inject the worm.)

If you're still skeptical try this one on for size.

Zoë has to travel to floor negative 52 to get to Eingana. The ancient underground city is thousands of meters below Marcuria.

Also after inserting the worm Eingana starts to spike and send out huge amounts of data, maybe, Eingana pushed a part of Stark (read: Zoë) in to Arcadia.

As you start to stack the evidence up it gets harder and harder to call this a bug. Actually the more I think about it the more I realize this is the best evidence to date supporting that Eingana, Dreamnet, and the Tower will ultimately result in the joining of Stark and Arcadia.

[LordSeth]

sorry to disappoint everybody but i didn't have that glitch or whatever so it's one of the 2:
1. only i had a bug and it is a suggestion of the place of Eingana in Arcadia
2. it's just a glitch

[Emoe]

sorry to disappoint everybody but i didn't have that glitch or whatever so it's one of the 2:
1. only i had a bug and it is a suggestion of the place of Eingana in Arcadia
2. it's just a glitch

Hey LordSeth, and this goes for anyone that's not seeing the above described effect (see this picture: http://razing.net/images/Chapter5_ZoeOutlineInWater.jpg) ...

To determine if this is a bug I need as many people as possible to copy the linked save file found here: http://www.razing.net/dreamfall_45.sav to their save folder in the Dreamfall game directory, then load up the game and verify whether or not you see the silhouette of Zoë in the water to the right of April.

If you don't see it - please grab a screenshot of the window by hitting the ALT+[Print screen] button and then paste the picture in to mspaint. Once you've got your picture, save it as a jpeg, host it on imageshack (http://imageshack.us/) or imagebucket (http://www.imagebucket.net/), and post back ASAP. :)

I'm definitely curious ... Thanks!

[Typhon]

You're really reaching, trying to find meaning where there is none. Sometimes a glitch is just a glitch.

[LordSeth]

Hey LordSeth, and this goes for anyone that's not seeing the above described effect (see this picture: http://razing.net/images/Chapter5_ZoeOutlineInWater.jpg) ...


yea i saw the picture but the fact i didn't see in in-game means it's only a glitch or am i the only one who didn't see it?

You're really reaching, trying to find meaning where there is none. Sometimes a glitch is just a glitch

yea i'm with this guy

[Emoe]

By all means, please, prove me wrong. If it's a bug I'd rather not waste time with it. However if you download the sav and see the silhouette then it leaves room for some interesting possibilities -- which isn't to say that it's not a bug.

All I ask is that you download the save, run the game, and should you not see the silhouette I simply ask for a screenshot. Then if enough users say they don't see the effect that's a pretty strong argument for this being a bug.

Actually, let me go a little bit further, if even one person doesn't see the ethereal form of Zoë that's a big indicator that this is a bug - as it's not a very complicated to occlude a flagged set of back-facing polys.

[grumbel]

By all means, please, prove me wrong. If it's a bug I'd rather not waste time with it.
I played to the game now two times, second time actually looking for that glitch, didn't found it however. I havn't tried your save game, but since the savegame actually might have saved the glitch as well, that wouldn't really prove anything.
However, Eingana and that glowing something under the Tower are for sure connected, so if glitch or not, the scene that follows with April touching the glowing stream and Eingana showing some weird readings in the other world should give clear enough hint.

[Linkgoron]

Well, I think I found another glitch....

When Crow and April try to save Zoe (when they're under the tower, on one of those scenes that Crow goes back and forth from Zoe to April) when Zoe speaks with Crow there's an cell-echo thingy, which is normal because they're in a cell, but in that scene when Crow speaks with April there's also a cell-like echo that shouldn't be there. I know it's not something big, but it's funny still...

[zarc49]

Using my savegame at that place, I could not find the glitch. I tried your savegame and the glitch is there. As grumbel said, your savegame probably contains the glitch, and I wouldn't read too much into it.

[towerstone]

could it be something depending on how we fared earlier in the game?

[Sianna Tors]

This may in fact be a bug, but maybe - just maybe - it's one hell of hint suggesting that this is the location of Eingana in Arcadia.


It's an interesting theory and has quite a bit of evidence regarding the location of the Eigana!

But that said, I think the Zoe "shadow" is just a glitch. If the Zoe "shadow" was supposed to be there, you would think Zoe would be wearing what she's wearing in Stark - the overalls and cap from WATICorp or her hoodie are the two possibilities since you don't need to wear the overalls. But that model is pretty clearly that of Zoe in her wool jacket look - the one she has in Arcadia.

[towerstone]

It's an interesting theory and has quite a bit of evidence regarding the location of the Eigana!

But that said, I think the Zoe "shadow" is just a glitch. If the Zoe "shadow" was supposed to be there, you would think Zoe would be wearing what she's wearing in Stark - the overalls and cap from WATICorp or her hoodie are the two possibilities since you don't need to wear the overalls. But that model is pretty clearly that of Zoe in her wool jacket look - the one she has in Arcadia.
it could make sense, it all depends on how they have programmed the game. and the zoe model is clearly loaded into the scene, something that shouldn't have been, or is it on purpose?

i believe that if it's there, it's been put there somehow. remember, in a scene change, you blank everything out and load a new scene so to me, it's obvious she's supposed to be there. especially since it's a "special edition" of zoe. now what it might be, if it's a hint of the plot, that i don't know what to think of, but i am sure she's there for a reason

[Hypersapien]

I do not believe for a second that Zoe in the cave is intentional. It is just something that the developers forgot to take out of the scene before the game shipped.

#1, April doesn't react to it at all. It is not selectable by the focus field and April doesn't say anything about it.

#2, If it were intentional, they would do something more interesting and meaningful with the look than simply not rendering the water and buildings behind it.

It's a glitch, people.

[diverbetty]

Yes, I saw Zoe's ghostly figure too when I was playing the game, and I thought 'what the hey-!?'. I've never seen anything so bizarre in a game. It seems too orchestrated to be just a glitch (I could see the figure close up or from far away, from all angles.) I really like the theory about it signifying where Arcadia really is - love new theories! I may not buy it, but I love it!

[Hypersapien]

It seems too orchestrated to be just a glitch (I could see the figure close up or from far away, from all angles.)

Well yeah. It's a 3D object in the environment, just like everything else you can see. They would have to deliberatly put in special programming if they wanted you to only see it from certain distances or angles.

[UnchainedGodess]

They left it there on purpose. Its A. An Easter Egg B. A symbolization of Zoe in Arcadia. Or just a glitch IDK! lol.

[Orion19]

Well, I didn't see it. Maybe I didn't notice. It could be a glitch or they could have done it on purpose.

[cara-syb@hotmai]

can a glitch be in both the pc and xbox version? I don't know anything about programming but I think that that is highly unlikely. I think that it's an easter egg because not everyone see's it

[Manny Calavera]

I have the 6-disc US version of the game, and I never saw the Zoe shadow on the water, even after playing the game twice. Plus, if this was meant to be an "easter egg" everyone who bought the game - not only a select few - would see Zoe's outline, too.

[SuperTank17]

There are 2 possible anwsers:

1). It's a glitch, remains of game testing or something like that.

2). It's an Easter Egg placed there by programmers on purpose.

Ad 1). It could be a glich because of it's lack of interaction. It's prety normal when game is made in a hurry. They later release countless number of patches to fix those gliches...

Ad 2). It also can be an Easter Egg. Easter Eggs are usually something funny or something that conects to other parts of a game. For example Easter Eggs are very popular in GTA series. There is one for example in a form of a billboard with a advertisement of company called True Grime: Streats Cleaners (it's a joke about a rival of GTA games called True Crime: Streats of LA). In this situation this can be an Easter Egg reminding about the fact that players played as Zoë Castillo here in earlier parts of game.

There is also a third possibility but I'm not sure of it... I think it can be a test made by programmers which have to show what players going to think of that ... In that case the "glich" was placed there to show if people going to take it as a glich or going to think of it as an Easter Egg or part of the storyline.

IMHO I think it's an Easter Egg and the glitch is only about the fact that people don't have that "ghost of Zoë Castillo in her Arkadia outfit".

[handyengi]

Ive played through 3 times and each time have seen the Shadow, and all three times I played Differently

has anyone tried to see if it renders in a 3rd party program like Dreamview?

[Wintermute]

One year later! ;-)

But seriously, how can you play the game differently? It is very much linear.

This "shadow" is a glitch, which seems to exist only in the North American version, since it was the first one. So it is natural that you see the "shadow" everytime. Nevertheless it is still a bug. ;-)

It was remedied in the later published versions and doesn't appear e.g. in the Limited Edition or other European releases.

[songsage]

I just don't think it's a glitch. I don't think programmers could miss such a big thing like that. I tried with the focus field, but could not interact. But there are other things in the game I could not interact with; like the mailboxes in Casablanca. Maybe you can do something with the mirror image "ghost". Who knows? I thought it was odd when I (Zoe) first got there, that I was able to even walk in the water in the one area without being able to do anything. I thought I had to catch fish or something. Then, when with April I see the "ghost" in the same area. I just don't think it's a glitch. The escape person leaves that way and so we are led to that area to see the "ghost". If anyone else tries that, let me know. Maybe if I don't walk in the water on my next game play then she won't show. I will have to investigate it. There's definitely something to it: if not in this game, then the next, if there is one.

[songsage]

Maybe it is just the North American version. I just bought the game three days ago so i must have the most recent version. Maybe it's for a reason. I guess we will just have to see. But maybe there really is a way to interact with it. Game play might not be as linear as we think. That's a hard one to figure out. I'm obsessed.

[krushia]

More ranting :)

I am still waiting for people to email me save games, WITH OR WITHOUT the "shadow". So far only one person has sent me a save. I compared it with mine and have narrowed possible triggers down to a list of the info in the files which is common (a tiny amount of gamestate, a huge amount of interaction logs, and some unknown crap). I am also 90% sure I've found the code in the saves that actually renders the glitch (need to try editing saves to confirm this).

I really want a save from this location that does NOT have the "ghost". I can't stress enough how much this would help me figure this out. I don't think it is possible to solve this mystery without a save that lacks the Zoe shadow.

For those who don't want to go through the effort of finding saves: I am thinking about making a small program that locates any saves at the "ghost" location in your Dreamfall installation, and submits them to me along with info on the version of Dreamfall and basic video card stats. Is this something that people would be comfortable using?

- Ken

[Wintermute]

@Krushia: I don't have Dreamfall installed at the moment. The next time I have, I'll send you a bug-free save game.

@Sondage: Just the fact that you can't interact with it is explanation enough. And I think that the most recent version of North America is still the same one they sold there one year ago and so it is still the earliest version of Dreamfall, which still contains the bug.

You should just reread the thread again, the glitch is explained thoroughly enough. This is an area, which contains the 3D models of both Zoe and April. In "April-Mode" they just turned the Zoe model invisible but forgot to move it to a place outside of the player's view. Maybe they just overlooked it at first, because in its invisible state it is still not very obvious.
They removed this bug in later editions of Dreamfall.


I really can't understand that some people still are so eager "to believe" in this simple stupid bug. It's almost religious. ;-)

[songsage]

Okay, I didn't understand before, but you cleared it up.