Kian Alvane

[Suzzy]

Has anyone else noticed that Kian's last name is the same as Lady Alvane's???
I wonder what that could mean....

Also, sorry if this has been mentioned before, I am in a hurry and can't look though all the threads...

[Draikin]

To me, it looked like he fell in love with April at first sight, it makes sense ... more ammo for April = Lady Alvane theory ;)

TLJ3 will be great, i cant wait :(

[kitanasanti]

*laughs* Ya know I didn't even notice until I read this topic. I'm all for April Alvane. *grins*

[cara-syb@hotmai]

Kian and April together now that would cool I hope we find out what happened to April soon it's killing me.

[Suzzy]

Heh, I thought i had heard it wrong at first because I accidentally hit the skip button, but they said it so many times...I highly doubt that could be a coincedence... maybe. ^.^

[yuriko]

and people actually laughted at me when I told them that Kian might like April before the game was released... really, I'm not kidding! ^_^

[Jorge]

I went through the whole game thinking "why is that name so familiar?" Didn't make the connection until I read the forum though :P

[jtt]

It is sweet. Notice in the game that Kian responds favorably toward April no matter which dialogue you choose. ;)

I didn't get a chance to figure it out on my own like you all did. I replayed TLJ just before getting Dreamfall making the hint of 'Lady Alvane' fresh in my mind, so just looking at the character names made it glaringly obvious.

[Sianna Tors]

I think this is something of a no-brainer because of my theory about the game.

1. I don't think Zoe has saved April Ryan yet. At the end of the game in Winter, when Faith tells Zoe that everything was fine, it wasn't. By then the White had been attacked. I'm of the opinion that whomever was presenting herself to Faith by then was NOT the White who had been up to then.

2. April Ryan has been nursing a huge inferiority complex (one she denies) ever since TLJ when she realized she wasn't the chosen one. This is eating her up for an entire decade now. It's so bad she's forgotten how to love - she pushes away everyone who loves her because of this. It's so bad she won't go back to Stark to even tell her friends she's okay. (The source of her inability to shift - she's in denial.)

3. "Saving Private Ryan" in this case will require April to remember how to love again. I don't think Zoe can do this. Kian will have to teach her to set aside her hatred and love again.

4. My opinion is that TLJ3 will center around Kian. I sure hope they weave their story magic for that - Kian was a painfully dull character in this one.

[cara-syb@hotmai]

I think that while Kian and April are fighting the Azudi together they'll fall in love and she'll fight it but Kian will help her get over it.

[Nil Einne]

One possible nail in the coffin. Are you sure the Azadi society or any Arcadian society follow the tradition of wives taking up their husbands surnames? Have we seen it before in Arcadia? The fact that Azadi are matriachal makes it seems less likely for the Azadi...

Admitedly, April isn't Azadi and Kian may not remain Azadi afterwards (although I suspect he will but he will have to reform the Azadi) but still, I don't see any reason to assume April would be Lady Alvane even if she were Kian's wife...

Note that Kian's heritage isn't know. There appears to be something going on in the Six around him. Perhaps Lady Alvane is Kian's mother in some way?

Of course, another interesting thing is that Kian appears to know April. I personally believe he really does know he somehow. Perhaps a spiritual level? Or have they met before?

[Geno]

Note that Kian's heritage isn't know. There appears to be something going on in the Six around him. Perhaps Lady Alvane is Kian's mother in some way?
That doesn't explain the why crow would be at the end of TLJ, along with a lot of other revelations in the game's ending. The idea of April and Kian ending up together did cross my mind several times after I found out his last name was Alvane, though there does seem to be a lot of mystery surrounding his character - so we'll just have to wait for the next game to have the truth revealed. I'm surprised that April herself doesn't seem to find the name familiar when Kian introduced himself to her. Of course, ten years is a long time...

[Nil Einne]

Okay I thought Lady Alvane was another name for the white dragon somehow and now I remember/realise Lady Alvane was one of the names given to old April in TLJ.

However it works even better. AFAIK, in TLJ there was talk about April being a mother of some sort. And it appears there is some sort of time travel/circle in TLJ.

Clearly Lady Alvane is April IMHO. I still believe this and all indications in TLJ suggested this despite some people throwing up suggestions of Zoe or whatever. But the question is, how is she related to Kian (if at all). She could be his future wife. She could be his mother/ancestor. She could be many things...

[Sianna Tors]

If Kian comes from a matriachal society, he's used to listening to women on things of importance. If April insists on taking his last name when they're married, that is the way it would be, tradition or not. ;)

More interesting is that it is Lady Alvane, though it's made clear in the game that Kian is of common blood and not the kind of person who would be called "Lord" nor his wife "Lady." His honorific of Apostle basically means he's Sacred Assassin, that's it.

So either he gains a title in TLJ3 for something he does, or he's from the fantasy archetype of a "common kid in whom the blood of kings flows" or something. I'm fine either way.

Another funny part is that some of the earlier (European) artwork has a different relation between the three characters. Zoe is in front, Kian and April in the back, just like the ones on the shelves in the US.

But I'm sure we've all seen an older image where April is looking at Kian. If her expression isn't like, "Woof! I'm going to get me some of that!" I don't know what is. :D

[forever77]

Please post a link to that image.

[shadows]

I'm more in favor of Lady Alvane being Zoe.

The fact that she seems to be dying in the real world and if we assume that her physical self would die in the real world, it would be normal for her to be trapped in Winter, where Lady Alvane's house seems to be. Maybe she just took Lady Alvane's name as a remembrance of Kian and their adventure with April.
The fact that April will probably be destroying the ballance in the next game, as the prophecy says, and thus reunite the worlds of Stark and Arcadia might force Zoe to take refuge, as faith did, in Winter. April told Crow to stay with Zoe, and thus she was her last companion, it would also seem logical that crow stays with her seeing that she can't return to the real world and remains in the world of dreams. I dont think Zoe would have been introduced in the game if she wasn't supposed to take a greater part in this story and seeing as she seems to be a storyteller (end of the game with the guardian of dreamtime) it would also be logical that she would be the one to retell the stories of the world afterwards might even be that she is the next guardian of dreams.
The last thing wich makes me think it could be thus is that it would be a real shock to see that the one we all believed to be april at the end of the first game is actually someone else, and it's the kind of surprises I've come to expect from Ragnar.
But well I guess there's no knowing until next game is out.

[Calith]

I don't particulalrly believe that Lady Alvane is Zoe. It's not that i'm against it, it's just i don't think that it is her. For one, i think someone mentioned that in the textures of the first game, Lady Alvane is refered to as 'old april' now i know that doesn't mean it has to stay that way, but it is good evidence towards that. It's my belief that April was needed in a capacity that wasn't being fulfilled in Arcadia, and therefore had to be FORCED away from it. It's entirely possible she shifted back to Stark in shock, as it seems her emotions have a great effect upon her shifting powers. But another thing. In the storytime, there is NO time. I mean, look at Westhouse. He's from 1933 for crissakes! So unless April or Zoe spends hundreds of thousands of years there, they are not going to look like that.
So does that mean one of them has to shift into the story time at an old age?

[dae]

Thing is Crow isn't near Zoe when she dies and he knows nothing about that, and afterall how could Crow get into the story time? And why would Zoe take Kians name when she only had a brief conversation with him?

[Milo]

I mean, look at Westhouse. He's from 1933 for crissakes! So unless April or Zoe spends hundreds of thousands of years there, they are not going to look like that.
So does that mean one of them has to shift into the story time at an old age?

Something happened to Westhouse when he was captured in both worlds. He was released from the chains of time itself. He explains this both in The longest journey and in Dreamfall. Ordinary people in Arcadia gets older.

[towerstone]

Thing is Crow isn't near Zoe when she dies and he knows nothing about that, and afterall how could Crow get into the story time? And why would Zoe take Kians name when she only had a brief conversation with him?

true, but no one really knows what they were talking about, or for how long when they met at the friars keep...

[huntersq]

ok, lets get this CLEAR

it is not a theory, Lady Alvane IS april.
at the end of the first TLJ game, crow shows up and refers to Lady Alvane as APRIL. It is not a theory, it is a fact. It cannot be anymore obvious.

so we can all stop speculating. Kian and April WILL hook up later on, and April didn't die near the end of Dreamfall.

as for why April will take up the Alvane name even in a matriarchial (sp?) society of Arcadia. Well, that's April's choice. Since when does April follow the arcadi customs anyway? if she loves Kian, and wants to take the Alvane name, what's stopping her?

[Sianna Tors]

Please post a link to that image.

It took me a bit, but take a look at the banner.

http://www.drommefall.net/

[forever77]

Thanks you so much.

[Teoball]

ok, lets get this CLEAR

it is not a theory, Lady Alvane IS april.
at the end of the first TLJ game, crow shows up and refers to Lady Alvane as APRIL. It is not a theory, it is a fact. It cannot be anymore obvious.

so we can all stop speculating. Kian and April WILL hook up later on, and April didn't die near the end of Dreamfall.

as for why April will take up the Alvane name even in a matriarchial (sp?) society of Arcadia. Well, that's April's choice. Since when does April follow the arcadi customs anyway? if she loves Kian, and wants to take the Alvane name, what's stopping her?

Maybe, but I heard that that was something that happened in the german version. The english version does not have crow referring to lady alvane as april

[Aktai]

Indeed April is Lady Alvane. It is in both my Dutch and English versions of the game.

But is there a possibility that April and Kian are syblings?
I mean I can't find any other reason to introduce him into the story otherwise.
And Kian does not have any relatives as April has/had (was adopted).
Would explain the, I've seen you before stuff.

Could be April shifted when she was but a babe from arcadia. Or maybe they and Zoe are all related and made by some evil cooperation to rule the world. Who knows, maybe it's all a tale told by Lady Alvane they're living.

Just my two cents

[elanor]

Well what can i say.....Kian is realy hot......

[s.oliver]

More interesting is that it is Lady Alvane, though it's made clear in the game that Kian is of common blood and not the kind of person who would be called "Lord" nor his wife "Lady."
It's also said in the game that Kian's rise through the ranks was unprecedented and that he was ought to have mighty people favouring him. It could also be that he is supposed to take some kind of leading position at some point by people not in line with recent foreign politics of the empire.

It's also quite possible that April - destined for great deeds in the twinworlds, according to everyone and their scribe - aquires that title all on her own or is awarded by the grateful people of Insertnamehere.

Or people just call her Lady because she is old and revered or known for her kindness and worldliness. This doesn't have to indicate some feudal title.

[forever77]

as for why April will take up the Alvane name even in a matriarchal (sp?) society of Arcadia. Well, that's April's choice. Since when does April follow the Arcadia customs anyway? if she loves Kian, and wants to take the Alvane name, what's stopping her?

Though I agree with you I would like to point out that Arcadia isn't a matriarch society. It's just the Azadis who are matriarches. Because I talked to this lady (as Zoë, I think) and she said "Say what you will about the Azadi, but they do genially respect women. That's a nice change of pace" Indicating that Marcuria was a patriarch before the Azadi got there.

[Tramz]

Though I agree with you I would like to point out that Arcadia isn't a matriarch society. It's just the Azadis who are matriarches. Because I talked to this lady (as Zoë, I think) and she said "Say what you will about the Azadi, but they do genially respect women. That's a nice change of pace" Indicating that Marcuria was a patriarch before the Azadi got there.

The way i see it, creating a matriachal society within the Azadi and having it be a "goddess" were done to shine a light on our own patriarchal society stemming from our own major religions. I mean, think about why we, in the real world, automatically take the male's surname. That aside, Kian is still an Azadi. One would assume he would be inclined to take April's name just because that is the way things are in his culture. However, in Arcadia, one could argue that April is known more as Raven than Ms. Ryan, thus she has no real last name.

Speaking of matriarchal society, one has to suspect that The Six (or whomever was responsible for creating the image of "the scorpion") purposely made it a 'he', even though it is a "she" to vilify, discredit, and otherwise dismiss april and her message in the minds of the azadi.

[Sianna Tors]

Speaking of matriarchal society, one has to suspect that The Six (or whomever was responsible for creating the image of "the scorpion") purposely made it a 'he', even though it is a "she" to vilify, discredit, and otherwise dismiss april and her message in the minds of the azadi.

That wouldn't really happen at least in an outright sexist society. The Scorpion would be a she because who else but a woman could really be that competent as to cause that much trouble? The "weaker" sex would be unable to do that much.

But the Azadi seem to have a much more realistic view of matriarchy, like existed in some matriarchal soceities that actually existed. The men do all the "manly" work while the women do all the thinking and running of things. Notice that the Azadi aren't run by a single Queen (a single-person hierarch being a very male idea) and instead have a small council of six to run their Empire.

All that aside, it's possible that Kian is the scion of some powerful family or something, one that probably fell into disfavor after doing something. Perhaps it was something that vitally needed to be done for the good of the Empire, but there was no way Kian's ancestors to do and still retain honor. So his ancestor essentially "took the hit for the team" and died as a disgrace. However, the Six never forgot the sacrifice and has favored Kian and helped him rise through the ranks when otherwise his "lowly" birth would have stopped him. Perhaps later, he learns of his history and is granted the proper title of Lord Alvane. April, no matter what else she might be, is not noble, so when she marries Kian (this is all assuming they do marry, after all) she'd assume the noble side's title, man or not.

[7ranz]

I find that idea, which grant it is pretty rock solid, of April marring Kian horrible.

April Ryan is perhaps the most devolped charactor in all of gaming (now I don't play games at all really, but I make sure to play ones accalimed for story [KOTOR, TLJ]....I'm a sucker for a good story). I think such a well done charactor takes sort of a hit when she is married to, to be frank, a bad done charactor.

Devolpement in general works two ways.

1) Depth in a solid charator.
2) A changing charactor (that also follows the idea of 1), that makes a change from Point A to Point B

April is the latter. However, Kian is neither. There seems to be an attempt to make him a solid charator to follow the Point A to Point B model, but it was a failure.

Kian has the basic change down. From devoted and naive to curious and thoughtful. But there is no devolpment inbetween. ( I suspect due to time concerns).

He is more of a

A B (Change Unseen)

then the solid charactor devolpment of

A--------------------------------B (Devolped Change)

Almost all the evidence points to a marriage of April and Kian, but I find it would hurt the strong charactor (a perfect, A-------------B) of April Ryan.

Kian's charactor is a forgetable one, unlike most of the charactors that Thornquist creates. (Reza was weak too). Tornquist is a charactor smith but yet Kian seems to be one that is not devolped.

It's not so much that he is unlikable (though his ignorance is hard to take), but he is undevolped. He also has no change in emotion, or sound of the voice (also seen with Reza). Now no emotion is fine, if they are meant to be a cold charactor. And he certainly doesn't come off as cold. Just mislead. But yet there is no depth. I think there could be a great deal of added depth to his charator to create that line between Point A to Point B, but that didn't happen. I can see why. There is only so much time in the game and devolping 3 charactors takes time.

I am against Kian marrying April. For I it would saddens me greatly to see such a great lovable charactor be with one that is not devolped.

[ugluk]

I think whoever suggested that Kian will be the central character in TLJ3 is right. After all, you can't marry off April to some dude we've known from roughly 3 scenes in the game. Kian is BY FAR the most undevelopped of all central characters in the TLJ series and considering he is given so much importance in this game, he has to be developed further - MUCH further - in the next game.

And considering that April is called Lady in TLJ, it appears that he has to rise to that power. Perhaps an interesting scene to make would be his trial.

At any rate, I think Kian's character (about whom many people are complaining) is undevelopped for a reason, and that reason is TLJ3, if it ever happens, of course. Lets pray it does.

[Mika]

I'm not much of a theorizer myself, but somehow I doubt the possibility of Kian and April marriage.

It's mentioned somewhere in DF that "time is a circle", which might indicate that somehow April goes back in time, and is actually Kian's mother, and at some point after that is whisked away to be Lady Alvane in the TLJ. Maybe April is one of the six.

:p

haha


My silly theories aside, time is not a very solid concept in the TLJ universe at all, so anything is possible really.

[olka83]

it's SO obvious they r gonna get married...

In the next game, April and Kian probably going to fight together, travel together..whatever..they will get to know each other and fall in love.

The whole theme of :"enemies turned into friends/lovers" is such a cliche,though.

[Zalbor]

Maybe Kian avoids the rest of the Azadi by having a magical sex and race change, then becomes good friends with Crow. That surely wouldn't be a cliché. :p

[thelj]

Maybe Kian avoids the rest of the Azadi by having a magical sex and race change, then becomes good friends with Crow. That surely wouldn't be a cliché. :p
A refreshing idea! :D

[snusser]

Kian is devastated after April's death.
So he finds a new thing: Womens clothes.
Finds himself a small cottage and lives with Crow.
Thereafter, he is known as 'Lady Alvane'

[7ranz]

Kian is devastated after April's death.
So he finds a new thing: Womens clothes.
Finds himself a small cottage and lives with Crow.
Thereafter, he is known as 'Lady Alvane'
AHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH
THATS GREAT! AHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH

[sireebob]

That's all well and good, but how would he know the full story of April Ryan - all the aspects of it that are brought up in TLJ? How would anybody but April know all that? She didn't tell anyone!

Then again, her diary ...

[cara-syb@hotmai]

her diary didn't go into that much detail

Edit: spelling

[sireebob]

I know. But she could have fleshed out the story...

Actually, this has been mentioned in I think only one other place before (that I've read, that is), and I can't remember exactly where, so excuse me for not giving credit where it's due, but know that this was not something I was able to tell on my own.

The story of Dreamfall doesn't fit its frame. Zoë tells of things that she didn't even see - couldn't have seen. Like those times we see things from the perspective of April, before Zoë has even seen her before. And the scenes with the perspective of Kian, and the scene with the White Dragon being attacked, and the scene with Peats being attacked... There are plenty of things she didn't know happened!

I think it's just bad writing, but it's interesting.

[SadeLyrate]

Maybe it's because Zoë's in the Storytime now, she's able to 'be anywhere anytime'?

And if Kian gets dresses, Zoë'll be Crow, then. That would explain a lot, too! :p

[Miral]

I don't think the whole game is supposed to be taken as Zoe's perspective. As you said, that's impossible. That's just how it starts out -- Zoe is telling her story. That's also how it ends. There are interludes where you see pieces of other people's stories, and how they interact with Zoe, but there's no reason to think that Zoe herself is relating these. They've just been added to fill in the gaps for the player, and make things a bit more interesting.

[White Lady]

If Kian comes from a matriachal society, he's used to listening to women on things of importance. If April insists on taking his last name when they're married, that is the way it would be, tradition or not. ;)

More interesting is that it is Lady Alvane, though it's made clear in the game that Kian is of common blood and not the kind of person who would be called "Lord" nor his wife "Lady." His honorific of Apostle basically means he's Sacred Assassin, that's it.

So either he gains a title in TLJ3 for something he does, or he's from the fantasy archetype of a "common kid in whom the blood of kings flows" or something. I'm fine either way.

Another funny part is that some of the earlier (European) artwork has a different relation between the three characters. Zoe is in front, Kian and April in the back, just like the ones on the shelves in the US.

But I'm sure we've all seen an older image where April is looking at Kian. If her expression isn't like, "Woof! I'm going to get me some of that!" I don't know what is. :D

He could get a title somewhere later on, couldn't he?

[snate]

Lady Alvane has to be April because April said she seemed so familiar when she met her in TLJ. She was familiar because she had seen Lady Alvane in the mirror just without wrinkles and white hair. If she were Zoe or someone else I don't think she would have seemed so familiar to April.

[Nikioko]

First of all: Lady Alvane IS April Ryan. It is the only explanation that make sense.
And I still hope that Charlie's last name, that we don't know, is Alvane as well, for I hope that April is forced to shift back to Stark by the incedence on the pier, where she meets back her old borderhouse friends in Venice and regain the warm feelings she has lost a long time ago, which gives her the power to fight against the company (hopefully in a point and click manner, how it used to be in TLJ). Strengthened by these memories she realizes that Stark and Venice is the place where she belongs, where her friends live and where she can enjoy fun.
But I fear you are right and she will get along with this weak fantasy game character Kian and live in Stark forever - until the reunification. I hate these tidings - April was a modern girl from Stark who liked cool clothings hanging about with friends, happy studying arts and a bit sad about not having a boyfriend - typical teen. Now she has grown older but those desires must even have grown, and though she always said that she felt not the same for Charlie as he did for her it just seemed that she needed time to get over her father.

[eloy]

I am completely with you on that one.

I've been secretely hoping for Charlie and April to get together one day ever since I've been playing TLJ, and I've never lost hope - but the moment I realized just why Kian's family name sounded so familiar was a real shock in that context.

In my opinion, Kian ist just not the kind of man, or partner April needs.
This is highly subjective of course, but he is just so.... so sweet, so naive and gullible.
He always believes in the good in people (even if there is none, apparently) - which might be a good feat in itself, but it seems to me like he has yet a long way to go to understand the ways of the world around him.
I don't know if that would fit well with the disillusioned, bitter April. And I don't belive his naivity and sweetness would teach her how to trust and have faith again or anything cheesy like that ;) .

Charlie, on the other hand has become a clever buisnessman, he is charming, delightingly street-smart, seems even wise in his own way. He has a soothingly calm and collected, but friendly manner when he meets Zoe - and he is just as disillusioned and and, in some ways, disappointed as April.

But unlike her, he has learned to deal with this disappointment, to turn his failed dreams a new opportunity, to move on with his life and be happy.
(I'm referring to the part where he and Zoe talk about that he wanted to become a dancer, but had to drop out of college due to money issues, and lost his faith in himself and the world etc.)

And that's why I think he would be perfect for April; he does not only love her (or at least did in TLJ), but he is much like her.
Unlike Kian, he would be able understand her pain and maybe even to help her see things in a different way, to overcome her bitterness and disappointment as he did.

Apart from the fact that Kian's personality does remain awfully flat and dull in Dreamfall, he is surely a kind man and has a heart of gold and all that - but so does Charlie.
And I think he is simply a much better match for April.... Whow, long post, sorry to have been rambling, but as you can see I am really a huge fan of the potential April-Charlie pairing ;)

[eloy]

Oh, and I would like to see April return to Stark, too.
She does not seem all that happy in Arcadia, and the "modern" world seems much more like the place she belongs - with flying cabs and neon lights and students hanging out in the park and all that.

[CuteBanda]

Spoilers for The Longest Journey
-------------------------------------------------------------


Yes, that is so true. Also, later on in the end of the game, Crow comes in saying something about 'all the adventures they had'.

Lady Alvane is April, without a doubt. But you know what I didnt understand?

During the part April and Kian first met, I made Kian introduce himself (which ment, saying his full name). He said his name was Kian Alvane, and April reacted 'why are you telling me all of this?', which means the name Alvane isnt familiar to her...yet?

[forever77]

I am completely with you on that one.

I've been secretly hoping for Charlie and April to get together one day ever since I've been playing TLJ, and I've never lost hope - but the moment I realized just why Kian's family name sounded so familiar was a real shock in that context.

In my opinion, Kian isn't just not the kind of man, or partner April needs.
This is highly subjective of course, but he is just so.... so sweet, so naive and gullible.
He always believes in the good in people (even if there is none, apparently) - which might be a good feat in itself, but it seems to me like he has yet a long way to go to understand the ways of the world around him.
I don't know if that would fit well with the disillusioned, bitter April. And I don't believe his naivety and sweetness would teach her how to trust and have faith again or anything cheesy like that ;) .

Did you play Dreamfall with your ears and eyes closed? Just like all the other Azadi he thinks the magicals are evil and wicked? What's sweet about that? And you selective memory must also have forgotten that Kian hats Vamon with a fiery passion. Or that he think the Warden is "a prime example why women should be the ones in positions in power". His sweetness and gullibility only extends to women (maybe because be grow up in a matriarchy). He does seem to want to believe in the good in people, but if you think that mean you don't understand the world around you I feel sorry for you.

So you don't think Kian would be able to teach April to trust or have faith? Didn't you notice how almost everyone tries to get April out of depress-o-mode, Brynn and Crow tried the "Why are you acting like such a bitch?" approach, Benrime and Gordon tried the "Just let it go approach" and Zoë even gave April the chance to relive her "saving the world" days. April's response is to turn them all away. Who is the one person who actually manages to get some passion from her (did she go all V for Vendetta on any one else?)? Who is the one she says she's actually beginning to trust (even though she knows he's an Azadi, her ultimate enemy)?

Charlie, on the other hand has become a clever businessman, he is charming, delightfully street-smart, seems even wise in his own way. He has a soothingly calm and collected, but friendly manner when he meets Zoë - and he is just as disillusioned and and, in some ways, disappointed as April.

But unlike her, he has learned to deal with this disappointment, to turn his failed dreams a new opportunity, to move on with his life and be happy.
(I'm referring to the part where he and Zoë talk about that he wanted to become a dancer, but had to drop out of college due to money issues, and lost his faith in himself and the world etc.)

And that's why I think he would be perfect for April; he does not only love her (or at least did in TLJ), but he is much like her.
Unlike Kian, he would be able understand her pain and maybe even to help her see things in a different way, to overcome her bitterness and disappointment as he did.

I love Charlie, and I think him and April would have made a great couple, but here's the down side SHE DOESN'T HAVE ANY FEELINGS FOR HIM. And that's the end of that argument for me.

Apart from the fact that Kian's personality does remain awfully flat and dull in Dreamfall, he is surely a kind man and has a heart of gold and all that - but so does Charlie.
And I think he is simply a much better match for April.... Whow, long post, sorry to have been rambling, but as you can see I am really a huge fan of the potential April-Charlie pairing ;)

I agree that we didn't see enough of Kian in Dreamfall, but I love him all the same, and when people insult characters I love I can get really bitchy, and I'm not ashamed of it. I don't have a problem with you loving the idea of a Charlie/April paring but when you start insulting Charlie's rival you only come of as childish. If you want to live in denial go ahead (personally I would love to hear you rant about a Charlie/April fluffaton (no, I'm not being sarcastic)), but don't insult Kian, cause I will defend him with the same passion you defend the April/Charlie romance.

[Nimloth]

Why should Kian and April marry? They can fight together in tlj 3 and in the end Kian will die. Because Worlds are now united again and everything has changed and to remeber her good friend Kian, April calls now herself "Lady Alvane". Very simple theory I know I know... (-:

[Bluejay]

Because sentimentalists would like April to have a partner and being so lonely for so long. Crow fits only half the bill, April would probably get tired of his wisecracks and picking his fleas when he throws a fluff. :D :D

[Miral]

Besides, Crow is already married. Even if he did leave his wife several years ago.

[eloy]

----------------- edit: this may contain Spoilers for Dreamfall -------------------

Did you play Dreamfall with your ears and eyes closed? Just like all the other Azadi he thinks the magicals are evil and wicked? What's sweet about that? And you selective memory must also have forgotten that Kian hats Vamon with a fiery passion. Or that he think the Warden is "a prime example why women should be the ones in positions in power". His sweetness and gullibility only extends to women (maybe because be grow up in a matriarchy). He does seem to want to believe in the good in people, but if you think that mean you don't understand the world around you I feel sorry for you.

So you don't think Kian would be able to teach April to trust or have faith? Didn't you notice how almost everyone tries to get April out of depress-o-mode, Brynn and Crow tried the "Why are you acting like such a bitch?" approach, Benrime and Gordon tried the "Just let it go approach" and Zoë even gave April the chance to relive her "saving the world" days. April's response is to turn them all away. Who is the one person who actually manages to get some passion from her (did she go all V for Vendetta on any one else?)? Who is the one she says she's actually beginning to trust (even though she knows he's an Azadi, her ultimate enemy)?

I love Charlie, and I think him and April would have made a great couple, but here's the down side SHE DOESN'T HAVE ANY FEELINGS FOR HIM. And that's the end of that argument for me.

I agree that we didn't see enough of Kian in Dreamfall, but I love him all the same, and when people insult characters I love I can get really bitchy, and I'm not ashamed of it. I don't have a problem with you loving the idea of a Charlie/April paring but when you start insulting Charlie's rival you only come of as childish. If you want to live in denial go ahead (personally I would love to hear you rant about a Charlie/April fluffaton (no, I'm not being sarcastic)), but don't insult Kian, cause I will defend him with the same passion you defend the April/Charlie romance.

All right.... I do understand and appreciate that you defend your opinion of Kian even if it differs from mine - but there is no need to get all nasty over it, is there?

First of all, let me clarify that I was not trying to "insult" Kian in any way.
Calling someone sweet and naive does not equal insulting that person, normally. It does, however, include a tad of criticism, which I would argue is entirely not the same thing.
Yes, I said that his character remains awfully dull in Dreamfall.
But that is certainly not "his fault", but that of the writers, producers etc. who did not let us see enough of him. If I was insulting anyone here, it would be Ragnar Tornquist himself - and I would not even dream of doing that, believe me ;)

That said, I'm sorry if I came across as harsh against Kian. I like him alot, actually, as a person - but not as a partner for April for that matter.
Yes, I would like to see him find love, yes, I would like to see him happy with his partner - I simply don't think he is the one for April.
And this is my personal, purely subjective opinion, which I took the freedom to express in the post you quotet. (I even declared that it was my own subjective opinion, as you may have noticed.)
If that comes off as "childish" to you, I'm sorry.
But talking of which, I can't help but think that you insulting me over having a different view on the character seems even more childish than me expressing it in the first place.

Let me assure you that none of my senses was in any state of apparent disfunciton at the time I played Dreamfall, neither is my memory "selective"....or wait, now that you mention it...there was this unfortunate accident with an, uhh, memory charm when I was a wee little girl, that might have caused some kind of nasty partial amnesia....:D
I think I gotta see my doctor right now...

You said that like all Azadi Kian hated magicals etc., contradicting my claim that he was "sweet".
Well, there's the point. He does not personally hate or despise the magicals, or the people from the Northlands. Hell, he has never even been there, he has never even left his home country up to the point where our story starts, if I'm not mistaken.

The one and only reason he believes all this stuff is his upbringing, is because it has been taught to him since birth. His only fault is to never have questioned it.
In my eyes, that's naivity, not burning hatred.
You can see it in the way he reacts when he visits Marcuria, and when he talks to April. The very first time he sees how the Azadi really treat the Magical and supress the people of the Northlands - and bamm, he begins to question their actions. No "hatred" anymore, no "damn those magicals!" or anything.
That shows that his earllier actions did not stem from a deep, burning desire to destroy those who are different, but from his upbringing and lack of experience alone.

So yes, I still think he's sweet.
And yes, he does hate Vamon. But does hating one person mean that your overall personality can't be "sweet"? I mean, Zoe must hate Alan Peats, she even despises the actions of her own mother. So she can't have a sweet personality because of that?

And about April having no "romantic" feelings for Charlie - you are absolutely right on that, all evicence is against me.
But, you know, I can still hope that she might fall for him and his numerous qualities one day :) .... I mean, people's attitudes and feelings do change sometimes, so maybe...but that's just hope, really.

Okay, I've been rambling again, but I wanted to clarify that I did not mean to simply to insult a character with my post.

Oh, and one more thing...

"He does seem to want to believe in the good in people, but if you think that mean you don't understand the world around you I feel sorry for you."

Never been to Singapore, huh? :D
Seriously, though, there's no need to feel sorry for me ;). I appreciate your pity, but I think it's wasted here, cause if you read my post real closely, you'll see that I wrote:
"He always believes in the good in people - which might be a good feat in itself, BUT it seems to me like he has yet a long way to go to understand the ways of the world around him."

The use of the conjunction "but" indicates that "he believes in the good in people" is not in a causal connection to "he has yet a long way to go...".
Otherwise I would have used "because". (grammar's a bitch, right? ;) )

In other words, seeing the good in people is a good trait IN ITSELF, BUT he still seems like he has a lot to learn.

[Bluejay]

I'm half-wondering how everyone would react if Ragnar Tornquist does the unexpected and takes the wind out of everyone's sails by having .... April telling both Kian & Charlie : "You guys are sweet but I consider you both very good friends, my brothers." & she walks off into the sunset with Crow. :D :D :D

[Sozdanee]

Kian strikes me as a rather naive boy-scout. He’s obviously reasonably intelligent, but has spent his life being indoctrinated into a certain set of beliefs.

I think it counts in his credit that he is prepared to question that indoctrination when presented with situations and philosophies that do not match his own. I’m not entirely sure he can take all the credit for that, however, as his trainer at the temple was very vocal about his...contempt for the blind application of faith. I’m not convinced that Kian would have made the leap to allow April time to challenge his philosophies if his trainer hadn’t already planted the seeds of dissent.

I suspect that Kian is, on a very fundamental level, terribly immature, having never really been presented with the real world. Indoctrination into such a caste as he is must involve a significant degree of shelter from the realities of the outside world. I got the impression that the only times he got out of the temple were when he was being sent to ‘convert’ someone – go, kill, spout religious rhetoric, come home again.

It is hugely dangerous for any ecclesiastical government to allow such agents to roam free – because then they learn all sorts of things that they shouldn’t – like that the heathens really just want to get on with life. It seems rather lacking in foresight for the six to send anyone who displays some degree of independent thought, but we have to assume from the things they say that they have few other options.

In a very real way, he’s a true innocent. Based upon the information he has, he makes the best decision available to him...just up until DF he has only been presented with the regimented, sanitised information provided to him by the Six.

He has, until he meets April, been a tool – a means of delivering a fatal sword-blow to unbelievers. The Six don’t need him to think for that, just to follow orders. Thinking just gets in the way...as we see in DF...

[eloy]

That would be waaaay cool of course ;)
And very much like TLJ...remember the totally unexpected ending of part one!
And then no one would be disappointed, either - or, on the other hand, everyone :D

Crow's the sexiest anyway :P

---------- edit: this was meant as a reply to Bluejay's comment, I'm just too slow at posting ^^ ------------

[eloy]

Kian strikes me as a rather naive boy-scout. He’s obviously reasonably intelligent, but has spent his life being indoctrinated into a certain set of beliefs.

I suspect that Kian is, on a very fundamental level, terribly immature, having never really been presented with the real world. Indoctrination into such a caste as he is must involve a significant degree of shelter from the realities of the outside world. I got the impression that the only times he got out of the temple were when he was being sent to ‘convert’ someone – go, kill, spout religious rhetoric, come home again.


I agree completely.
That's what I meant by his "lack of experience" being responsible for his attitude and earlier actions, rather than any self-developed believes.

[Evenstar]

something that just entered my mind...
Kian is refered to as being "motherless". I think this can very well be interpreted as him not having any family. So where does the name "Alvane" come from, if he has no family??
Maybe it is no family name at all. Maybe it is an Azadi word for ... well, something ... an epithet that carries some kind of meaning... for instance "faithful one" or "righteous one" or "lonely fighter" or whatever.

Thus, "Lady Alvane" would not indicate any kinship to Kian, except maybe in mind. She (April, I pressume, but think what you like) could just have left her name behind and taken up that epithet either in credit of Kian or the meaning of the word itself.
It would also explain the title "Lady", making it "faithful lady" or whatever "Alvane" could mean.

Of course there are a lot more propable explanations but does it sound very propable that the wife/sister of a motherless boy carries the title "Lady" and that boy's family name (even though he has no family)?

... just a weird thought ...

[eloy]

Of course there are a lot more propable explanations but does it sound very propable that the wife/sister of a motherless boy carries the title "Lady" and that boy's family name (even though he has no family)?



It may be, that after the Azadi have been overthrown and a new, democratic government has been installed in the Northlands, Kian, who has been redeemed and fighting side by side with the rebels, is given the title of a "Sir" or knight, or whatever officiall honours they may have, for his deeds in fighting the Azadi occupation.

After his eyes have been opened by April, he will surely not fight on the side of the Azadi again - if he ever escapes their captivity.
And if he was honoured as a "hero" after the war, and maybe even given an official title, then his wife or sister would surely be able to call herself "Lady" - even though he was once just an orphan.

That's just speculation though, and maybe Kian, after all an Azadi, would be met with a lot of suspicion in such a new society when the Azadi have just been driven from the lands again...

[sojoyful]

Besides, Crow is already married. Even if he did leave his wife several years ago.
I thought Crow left right before getting married because he got cold bird-feet.

I'm half-wondering how everyone would react if Ragnar Tornquist does the unexpected and takes the wind out of everyone's sails by having .... April telling both Kian & Charlie : "You guys are sweet but I consider you both very good friends, my brothers." & she walks off into the sunset with Crow. :D :D :D
In all seriousness, it would not be inconsistent with the progression of the epic hero for her to go off into the proverbial sunset alone.

[Bluejay]

I'm curious. I think there should be a poll on whether anyone really wants to see April walking off alone at the end. :D With a flea-infested wisecracking talking bird. :D :D

[Miral]

something that just entered my mind...
Kian is refered to as being "motherless". I think this can very well be interpreted as him not having any family.
I took that as just being an insult, rather than fact. "Motherless" in a matriarchal society would mean approximately the same as the original form of "bastard".

I'm curious. I think there should be a poll on whether anyone really wants to see April walking off alone at the end. With a flea-infested wisecracking talking bird.
I want to see (and hear!) lots more of Crow. If he has to ride of into the sunset with someone to do it, well, then that's ok. But I'd much rather he rode around on camera with everyone :)