Mature Content and Version Differences

[Veraxus]

Iremember on Ragnar's blog some time ago he mentioned that Dreamfall may end up being a Teen rated game for the US with an uncensored Internation version for everyone else. For those not in the know, The Longest Journey had some very strong language (almost entirely from deplorable Stark characters, which IMO made them much more realistic and believable).

I'm ready to order the Limited Edition from Funcom, but I don't want to unwittingly end up with some peurile watered down American edition while the rest of the world gets the game the way it should be. What's the word on the rating and regional version availability?

[Silirrion]

The version is the same for all markets so no need to worry about missing anything (and the game is rated M in the US)

[Veraxus]

Thanks, that puts my mind at ease. I'll order the Limited Edition after class tonight. It's pricey but well worth it (I had the import version of TLJ but bought it again when it hit stateside just to have the different box art). :)

[onion]

If this game was rated Teen I really think it would fail. Going from Mature content to teenage PG-13 junk does not work...

[Laphin]

Thanks, that puts my mind at ease. I'll order the Limited Edition after class tonight. It's pricey but well worth it (I had the import version of TLJ but bought it again when it hit stateside just to have the different box art). :)

Make sure you really want the Limited Edition because it doesn't get shipped to you until May 1st. Won't be coming out along with the standard game.

The Standard version however is scheduled for tomorrow. April 17th.

[Veraxus]

Make sure you really want the Limited Edition because it doesn't get shipped to you until May 1st. Won't be coming out along with the standard game.

The Standard version however is scheduled for tomorrow. April 17th.

Yeah, I'm fine with that. I'm still trudging my way through Oblivion and don't have a terrible lot of free time anyway. One game at a time. I enjoy myself more that way.

[Neith]

Omigosh, a nipple!

http://media.pc.ign.com/media/535/535842/img_3268781.html

Newsflash: US Dreamfall release delayed due to a nipple exposure!

[NLO]

You`re kidding, right?

;)

[Neith]

With americans' outlook on nudity, who knows! But yep, I was only kidding.

[spiral.sin]

Not all Americans are close-minded. Being American, I find it ridiculous that this country gets so bent out of shape about sex in video games. Meanwhile, games where you can brutally kill people are perfectly acceptable.

[Neith]

Not all Americans are close-minded. Being American, I find it ridiculous that this country gets so bent out of shape about sex in video games. Meanwhile, games where you can brutally kill people are perfectly acceptable.I hear ya. I wasn't refering to americans as a nationality in general by saying "americans' outlook", I meant people who give out ratings or who are responsible for delaying games because a game has a nipple showing. For example: http://www.xboxic.com/news/632

[Vainamoinen]

Omigosh, a nipple!

http://media.pc.ign.com/media/535/535842/img_3268781.html

Newsflash: US Dreamfall release delayed due to a nipple exposure!

That's about the slightest hint of a nipple I have EVER seen in a computer game. Honestly!! :D :D

[Are'el]

The general adversion to sex and nudity, in the U.S., comes from our Puritan roots. While these people were pretty uptight, and their ways of thinking are clearly outdated for modern times, they are our history and tradition. A part of our culture. I find it culturally insensitve when people of other countries thumb their noses at us for having different cultural ideals than their own. I know Americans do the same to others as well, but as an individual I like to avoid believing our ways are better when really they are just different.

Besides, most Americans DON'T have a problem with nudity and sex. Obviously, we cannot get enough of it, since it's used heavily in movies. books, and television. It only becomes an issue when children are involved, and that's where we are having issues with the gaming industry. I personally don't mind mature themes in games intended for adults. Unfortunately, our govenment is mostly made up of people that still believe that games are only for kids. They are constantly trying to make laws censoring games, "to protect the children." It's a load a garbage, and is really only a scapegoat for our more complex social problems.

But like all cultures in the world, we are slowly evolving. What is taboo today will be the standard tomorrow.

[Panthera]

The general adversion to sex and nudity, in the U.S., comes from our Puritan roots. While these people were pretty uptight, and their ways of thinking are clearly outdated for modern times, they are our history and tradition. A part of our culture. I find it culturally insensitve when people of other countries thumb their noses at us for having different cultural ideals than their own.

Not gonna answer this, not gonna answer this.. gnnnh..

*run away*

[MightyFurcules]

Besides, most Americans DON'T have a problem with nudity and sex. Obviously, we cannot get enough of it, since it's used heavily in movies. books, and television. It only becomes an issue when children are involved, and that's where we are having issues with the gaming industry. I personally don't mind mature themes in games intended for adults. Unfortunately, our govenment is mostly made up of people that still believe that games are only for kids. They are constantly trying to make laws censoring games, "to protect the children."

That's completely true. Let's face it-- you can't get away from sexuality and nudity nowadays. It's pretty much omnipresent. And you're completely right in saying that the video game industry does not know how to deal with it. That's because while the gov't is doing whatever it feels is best to censor and keep these mature themes away from kids, the kids are always going to get their hands on this stuff.

That's the "more complex social problem" you mentioned.

There is a frightening lack of family-based (parental) guidance which allows that sort of stuff to easily be placed in the hands of children. Then the gov't, in a frenzied and poorly-executed attempt to compensate for all of that, in turn wants to censor absolutely everything, ruining the experience for mature adults who are capable of handling the content.

It's an incredibly difficult problem to deal with. Responsible, mature adults want the freedom to see and play whatever they'd like-- that should be our right. But when you find a *child* playing games like Grand Theft Auto, and then thinking it's perfectly acceptable-- and advantageous-- to steal automobiles, hire prostitutes, and then randomly run down or shoot (violently murdering without provocation) anyone that happens to be in their driving path, you have a big *big* problem.

Can rational adults differentiate the goings-on of a game like that and real life? Absolutely. (Well, hopefully. But there are also a lot of crazies out there.) Can a child? Absolutely not. And therein lies the problem. What to do? It's not an easily answered question.

And I know I'm using only one game as an example-- most of which the mature themes it contains are relating to violence rather than sexuality-- but it's just an example. I'm just trying to illustrate why the gov't gets freaked out by mature content of any variety. The gov't has to realize that all games have to be handled differently. There can't be one blanket policy regarding anything and everything they consider "mature" content. Obviously, some content is far more damaging than others. Ragnar had it right when he said ,"Exploding heads? Bring it on, baby. Bare asses? Good God, no!" Indeed! :)

[Neith]

The funniest thing is that all children have been exposed to a bare breast, unless of course they were never breast-fed. As for more intimate body parts, most children see them in their early adolescence, thanks to the internet. Not video-games. Here's an example; badjojo's website. Surely it contains a lot of amusing videos, some of them enjoyable by the younger crowd, some contain spicy humour for adults. Whichever is the case, it is crowded with ads with women dressed in skimpy outfits. I think it's needless to say that younger ones are prone to curiosity. Especially males, at a sight of a nearly naked woman. :P People who are responsible for banning stuff and handing out ratings, try to grab on to whatever is at hand, games and movies in this case, to the point of paranoical searching for a nipple showing or too transparent clothing, while 14 year olds have already faced "porn". It's solely the fault of parents' if a game their child gets contains unwanted nudity. Parents should look after the finances of their kids until they're at least 14ish, and still, the age depends on the child. Too strict? Perhaps, but at least numerous silly scandals in the gaming industry will be avoided.

I would've continued my thought, but it looks like this thread has boiled down to an argument. ^^

[MightyFurcules]

It's solely the fault of parents' if a game their child gets contains unwanted nudity. Parents should look after the finances of their kids until they're at least 14ish, and still, the age depends on the child. Too strict? Perhaps, but at least numerous silly scandals in the gaming industry will be avoided.

Exactly my point. Frightening lack of participation/guidance on the parts of the parents translates into overbearing and misguided intervention on the part of censors, etc. And like you said, as far as age in concerned, each child is different. Some still need a hell of a lot of guidance way after 14!

I would've continued my thought, but it looks like this thread has boiled down to an argument. ^^

Has it? I think it's just a discussion like any other-- and quite an intelligent (or at least relevant) one at that. I didn't see any of us arguing. :)

[Neith]

Has it? I think it's just a discussion like any other-- and quite an intelligent (or at least relevant) one at that. I didn't see any of us arguing. :)I meant "an argument" as in a discussion, not a conflict. At least, not yet!

We don't have any problems of that matter here, where I live, because our country sexually matures quite early; kids have sex as minors. While it's not entirely a good thing, we never have a problem with mature content exposed to children. And if there's a movie that contains sexual intercourse, children are not allowed. Even if you were 6'0, you'd asked to show ID, same for alcoholic beverages.

[Are'el]

Exactly my point. Frightening lack of participation/guidance on the parts of the parents translates into overbearing and misguided intervention on the part of censors, etc. And like you said, as far as age in concerned, each child is different. Some still need a hell of a lot of guidance way after 14!
So true. The information is there for parents to make decisions, they just don't want to be responsible. The ESRB ratings are right there on the box, and they're pretty self explanitory. If you don't want your kid to veiw certain types of content, pay attention to what they're doing and stop blaming others.

I was just at the theater a couple days ago, watching "Thank You for Smoking." There was a mother with a child of, I assume, 10 or 11. About a third of the way through the movie, she took her kid out of the theater during a sex scene. There was also some strong language before that. Anyway, I wasn't certain if I should applaud her responsibility for removing the child from a movie that wasn't intended for her age, or to scoff at her from not checking the ratings before bringing her. It was rated R, after all. I wouldn't take anyone younger than 14 or 15 into an R film.

[lmiller]

You should read the Amazon reviews of TLJ to see some of the disturbing, emotionally unstable responses to the very mild language and almost non-existent sexuality of that game. There is an element of America that is very sick and it wants to impose its sickness on everyone else.

[BlueSpawn]

It's actually a lie.

I've lived in the US for 10 years, and nobody really cares about nudity.

They just don't like how sex has been portrayed in video games (which is usually to dehumanize women).

The whole "americans hate nudity/sex" is a myth that publishers (and now developers) have spread amongst themselves.

Giants: Citizen Kubato took out nudity in US versions because the publishers said it woudln't sell well.

Same thing happened with Indigo Prophecy and Dreamfall.

Everybody assumes, nobody has actually made sure.

And...oh, I've said this before, haven't I?

[Are'el]

You should read the Amazon reviews of TLJ to see some of the disturbing, emotionally unstable responses to the very mild language and almost non-existent sexuality of that game. There is an element of America that is very sick and it wants to impose its sickness on everyone else.
This is very true, there are Americans that wish to impose their will on others. But let's be honest, that is NOT an American trait alone. There are people like that in every country.

[GyRo567]

America's situation is rather ironic though.

In real life:
Violence is bad. Sex is good.

In games:
Violence is good. Sex is bad.

Just like as in what's happening widely, supposedly. I've actually never seen anybody locally that didn't think sex really was okay, lol.

[Aeridus]

Maybe it's like this: due to overpopulation scares, society at large sees no overall problem with a few people being removed from the gene pool early. But yet one more person in this overcrowded planet due to sex? Heck no.

Though, in the USA, our population is pretty stable... so sex shouldn't *be* a problem. And contraceptives are pretty advanced, now.

And as far as nipples showing? Don't mothers breastfeed their kids? It's not like siblings seeing their mothers breastfeed a new baby can't figure out what a nipple looks like...

[masterofdeceit]

Dreamfall is racy! The version I have is full of sexual references but the funniest one has to be Klacks's "scented lubricant", listed by him along with several other items meant for hygiene and intimate care!
The dialogue in this game gets long and tedious at times but some lines are just pure gold nuggets! :)

[Are'el]

Dreamfall is racy! The version I have is full of sexual references but the funniest one has to be Klacks's "scented lubricant", listed by him along with several other items meant for hygiene and intimate care!
The dialogue in this game gets long and tedious at times but some lines are just pure gold nuggets! :)
I'm interested in those "curiously-shaped" cookies he keeps shouting about. :D

[Nothsa]

Giants: Citizen Kubato took out nudity in US versions because the publishers said it woudln't sell well. Same thing happened with Indigo Prophecy and Dreamfall. Everybody assumes, nobody has actually made sure.
It's assumed because nudity will almost certainly mean an Adult Only rating in the states, which is the death of almost any video game. Places like EB and BestBuy won't stock AO rated games and if it isn't stocked, it isn't bought. That doesn't mean that you wouldn't be able to buy it at all (you could probably still order it on places like Amazon), but it would severly cripple sales.

People are already complaining about how difficult it is to find a store that has Dreamfall, and it would be MUCH more difficult to find if it had an AO rating.